GalakStarscraper
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Mar 17, 2005 - 00:47 |
 
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| uber wrote: | | Galak doesn't know what he's talking about, don't pay attention to him. He hides behind his playtesters. |
Considering I was one of those playtesters who was doing very well with this team I'll beg to differ.
| Quote: | | So what your saying is "We want this team to suck so I'm not even going to look at any improvements of the team that might end up making them balanced or overpowered"? |
No actually what I'm saying is two things:
1) The Vampire team was supposed to be tier 2 by design ... this was delibrate and intended by Jervis, Andy Hall, and the rest of the BBRC ... not an accident. So if its worse than the classic teams than that was expected and an indication that the team is working as planned.
2) You should not be able to get a benefit from failing a nega-trait. This has been a driving force behind several of the negatrait changes. Wild Animal used to give you free blitzes ... no good ... so that got changed. Being able to score a TD when you've failed a negatrait is too much good allowed for a failed nega-trait. This isn't just my opinion. This is an across the board agreement in the BBRC.
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Finally, I've played a Vampire team and been very successful with it. Started with 2 Vampires, 9 Thralls, 5 Re-rolls, 7 Fan Factor. I took Pro on my Vampires as their first skill and made sure to never have more than 2 Vampires on my team that didn't have Pro. I placed my Thralls strategically to cover downfield movement in case of failed rolls and wasn't afraid to just let a Vampire leave the pitch rather than bite a Thrall if it made sense tactically. Maybe this hasn't worked for other folks ... but it did for me.
I'm personally taking a Vampire team to the next Blood Bowl tournament I'm playing in April (finishing painting the team this month) and if that goes well, I'll be taking them to the Chaos Cup in November.
And looking at the top 10 most played Vampire teams in FUMBBL ... 6 of the 10 have won more games than they've lost ... so that doesn't seem that bad of a record to me.
Just my thoughts on the matter since uber accused me of hiding behind my playtesters. Just wanted to respond to that with the facts of the matter.
Galak |
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Uber
Joined: Mar 22, 2004
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| Posted:
Mar 17, 2005 - 01:20 |
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I actually play one of those teams. I got 44 games and a record of 19/7/18 so I'm actually just one game over that magical .500 threshold. Of my 18 losses, a lot of them have been on the count of ofab. I think my record is reasonable, showing that the team is actually fine as it is. However, I did score on ofab more than a few times, so I would suspect that I wouldn't have such a "good" record if the client worked as it should. Another distortion on Fumbbl is that you get to chose who you play. When played in a real league, I think the vamps are very likely to get trashed in the long-term. They're just too vulnerable, thralls die on the like no others while ageing takes care of the vamps.
My point is that the vamps aren't overpowered, ofab score just give em a break where they need it. If you can't score the rest of your team will be left there standing to get killed. It's hard enough to move those vamps down the field without having to carry a thrall next to them. May I remind you that these thralls are some of the worst players in the game? Vamps have enough weaknesses as it is, let them have their TDs.
Fluff wise it would make sense to me that Vamps can feed between kick offs from those sexy virgins in the crowd, heck on my team it's the most popular TD celebration. I'd be curious to see how many of the other top vamp coaches agree with me vs. the rule gurus. |
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Recovering FUMBBL addict. |
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GalakStarscraper
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Mar 17, 2005 - 04:57 |
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| uber wrote: | | while ageing takes care of the vamps. |
Okay now I will admit my league doesn't use aging at all.
Given the the BBRC is in full agreement to get rid of aging from the game altogether when the Vault rules become official ... I've seen no reason to have a rule that when taken to a vote 80% of my league requested to be deleted.
So that is a leg up to the Vampires in my league as the Vamps don't get artificially removed from the team, but its a leg up that has full agreement as coming to BB some day by the rules committee.
Galak |
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Adar
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 17, 2005 - 12:23 |
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| GalakStarscraper wrote: |
1) The Vampire team was supposed to be tier 2 by design ... this was delibrate and intended by Jervis, Andy Hall, and the rest of the BBRC ... not an accident. So if its worse than the classic teams than that was expected and an indication that the team is working as planned.
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They are tier 2 even with the OFAB TDs. Vampires have the same win% as ogres (whom are famous for being unable to even get to the game...) and the only teams with a lower win percentage are goblins and halflings. They also loose more often than Ogres, scores 1,5 casualities less per game and got an almost 20% worse TD number.
| GalakStarscraper wrote: |
2) You should not be able to get a benefit from failing a nega-trait. This has been a driving force behind several of the negatrait changes. Wild Animal used to give you free blitzes ... no good ... so that got changed. Being able to score a TD when you've failed a negatrait is too much good allowed for a failed nega-trait. This isn't just my opinion. This is an across the board agreement in the BBRC.
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They doesn't get an advantage from the failed neg trait, they just avoid the bite if they manage to get to the endzone instead of too a thrall.
| GalakStarscraper wrote: |
And looking at the top 10 most played Vampire teams in FUMBBL ... 6 of the 10 have won more games than they've lost ... so that doesn't seem that bad of a record to me.
Galak |
You might want to look at how the coaches are doing with other teams before saying that they got more wins than losses becuase Vamps are overpowered. Ubers win loss-ratio is 53-47% with the vampires and 71-29% with his other active ranked teams. The same goes for the 6 other coaches who have scored more wins than losses with their vampires. Only one of the ranked coaches who got a positive win-loos raio got a coach ranking below 160 and that's Britnoth who spends alot of time playing halflings in ranked and those halflings got the same win-loss ratio as the vampires) |
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For all his rage, he's still just a rat in it's cage. |
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mUst
Joined: Jan 05, 2004
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| Posted:
Mar 17, 2005 - 12:45 |
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Client is always right, seen it somewhere and heard it spoken a gazilion times, "passblock have been this talk too" |
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Wizard
Joined: Jul 09, 2004
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Mar 17, 2005 - 14:02 |
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ofab is such a crap skill that i think you should be able to score...
Come on, they need all the help they can get.. |
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"As long as one person lives in darkness then it seems to be a responsibility to tell other people." |
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HollowOne
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
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Mar 17, 2005 - 15:01 |
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I think I have to agree with the idea that scoring on a failed OFAB roll isn't that bad. I mean, fluffwise it can be said that the vampire runs off the end of the field AFTER having already scored... (Run, Forrest, Run!)
Balance-wise, it's plain enough that the Vampires aren't going to stop being Tier 2 just because OFAB gets negated by scoring a TD. |
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BigMac
Joined: Dec 19, 2004
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Aug 09, 2005 - 04:52 |
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I cant hep but be pissed off by the wannabe authority galak wants to impose wherever he shows up.
All of this grandmaster attitude coming from the halfling man.
Dude. Vapires SUCK and this OFAB touchdown thingy is a rare event.
So the JBB program doesn't comply with the official rules in like 5 out of 100 actions the average vampire player takes, omg that totally makes the team way too good. damn!
And no this is not one of those lucky coincidences where some things solve themselves, the vamps getting a little help, the vamp coaches get a little more fun, and ski getting a little bit of an easier time implementing the rules...
no no no this totally renders fumbbl playtesting data useless. totally, so uselesss.
Galak i tell you something your whole tabletop playtesting data is useless because unless you consider the 50 over-bloodbowl-educatet people who jump around in the major internet communities fumbbl is the only place in the world where all people play blood bowl and are BOUND to the same rules. Everybody else including you makes up their own rules on the table. Either because people got something wrong and stuck with it for years and years, or they ruled something in or out. Not to mention the level of skill people have using JBB and the fewer capital mistakes that are made.
So i don't give a damn about the playtesting data of some 12 year old kids in some GW store who decide dark elves suck because they cannot out block orcs.
If you want playtesting data then pick the playtesters first, and there are some damn good blood bowl players on this site and their feedback carries 1000 times more weight that of a halfling only player in a no ageing tabletop league.
This whole Vault thing has completely gotten to your head. |
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Darkwolf
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 09, 2005 - 06:25 |
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Well, to wade into the vampire debate...
I have a good record with my vamps. Mainly due to my ability to chose opponents wisely. I also foul and carry two dps, which most vamp coaches do not.
I have no problems with the team on a whole, I see them as a variety of fling/gobbo team.
As far as ofab goes, I can see not allowing them to score when they fail it. Afterall, if I give my ogre or mino the ball and that player fails bonehad or wa, they cannot score either. Makes sense balance wise.
The only suggestion would be to increase thrall av to 8, like a regular Joe Linemen, or as others have suggested Master Thrall(s) positionsals. That way, the team could be a bit more competitive in the long run, play more heavy hittin teams and be more desirable to coaches who dont like to think.
Keep up the good work Galak! Some of that vault stuff is nice. |
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Eddy
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
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| Posted:
Aug 09, 2005 - 06:31 |
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@BigMac
do you do anything else than trolling ? |
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MrMojo
Joined: Apr 17, 2004
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Aug 09, 2005 - 07:49 |
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It seems he has attitude problems. so therefore I'll be ignoring him from now on. |
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thechosenone
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
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| Posted:
Aug 09, 2005 - 08:09 |
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| Quote: | | his whole Vault thing has completely gotten to your (Garlak's) head |
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Ha, Garlak is nothing...
Guess what! I know Peikko, so you can put me in the FUMBBl V.I.P room too thanks.
Well...I, hum, don't know him personally or anything, but I speak to him, um, on chat...Well, hum, actually, I really only speak to him when I have a problem with my account. But I still know him/of him!
And this other time, I actually got to speak to, guess who..you never believe it... - Ok...it was CHRISTER HIMSELF. I remember it like it was yesterday. He said "I think its your firewall". I will treasure that day for the rest of my life. For that one moment it was like I was a god. I still have that conversation, albeit a brief one, as wallpaper on my pc.
Yeah so to all of you, listen to me, the big dog, vampires have a stg of 5, ok, and sharp teeth. So we can now close this thread. Listen to me or I'll get admin on your ass. |
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- Master Tang: Pay no attention to Wimp Lo, we purposely trained him wrong... as a joke. |
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MrMojo
Joined: Apr 17, 2004
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Aug 09, 2005 - 08:15 |
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Uh, okay. Good luck to your life, chosenone, you can treasure this message too, if you wish. |
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thechosenone
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
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| Posted:
Aug 09, 2005 - 08:16 |
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Your message? I can't say I have ever heard of you. Become more important and will talk - yes, climb that ladder first. |
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- Wimp Lo: I'm bleeding, making me the victor
- Master Tang: Pay no attention to Wimp Lo, we purposely trained him wrong... as a joke. |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Aug 09, 2005 - 08:31 |
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| BigMac wrote: | I cant hep but be pissed off by the wannabe authority galak wants to impose wherever he shows up.
All of this grandmaster attitude coming from the halfling man.
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coming from mister arrogance himself, that's a bit strong.
| thechosenone wrote: | | Your message? I can't say I have ever heard of you. Become more important and will talk - yes, climb that ladder first. |
maybe my message. After all I am poster number 2 here  |
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