dsavillian
Joined: Apr 24, 2005
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 Posted:
Apr 20, 2012 - 18:45 |
 
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/whisper Kalimar
Just code the client to always roll a blizzard for weather if there's a pass blocker and hail mary passer on the field at the same time
problem solved! |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Apr 20, 2012 - 18:59 |
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Sigmar1
Joined: Aug 13, 2008
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Apr 20, 2012 - 19:00 |
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There appears to be a concensus that a strict interpretation of the current rules would preclude using PB on a HMP.
What has not been addressed is whether Kalimar should limit himself to the strict rules interpretation or whether he should use some 'creative license' to improve on the rules to make the skill implementation and the game more fun.
I'm firmly in the 'creative license' camp, to allow PB to move the defender to or next to the target square. |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Apr 20, 2012 - 19:06 |
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A-ha, Garion has my suggestion there. Ian and Galak are swift to answer such queries on general. Putting aside the usual BBRC chatter we have on these forums; those two are likely to answer, were in the committee at the time, and will probably know how they intended it, whether we agree or nay.
Frankly, both skills are garbage anyway (bar the HMP Bomber - yey!), so we aren't going to see this often. But, even so, let's do it right. |
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nin
Joined: May 27, 2005
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Apr 20, 2012 - 19:32 |
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This thread, with kalimar writting about PassBlock and HMP (and may be Boms  )...
I'm happy, oh so happy, and my gobbos are happy too.
Seriously, kalimar rocks (like in fans throw a rock, uberclawpombkiller gets it on the head, kill apo re-kill, and there was great rejoicement) |
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dode74
Joined: Aug 14, 2009
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Apr 20, 2012 - 19:34 |
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| Garion wrote: | | but that part of the rule is ignored, because Pass Block stipulates that you can use the 3Ma to stand next to the player passing or the target catcher, since there is no target catcher that cannot be done, however you could argue that you can move next to the Passer even though the extra TZ does not effect the Throw Team Mate roll. |
Fair point.
| Quote: | | However I do think it is clear that Pass Block is declared when the range ruler is used prior to the interception attempt, and since no range ruler is used, you cannot declare the Pass Block. |
Not so sure about that. It says the move is made after the range is measured, but it doesn't specify that this is when it is declared.
We'll see what Ian and Tom have to say. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Apr 20, 2012 - 19:39 |
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But it has to be when it is declared, you cannot possibly declare it any sooner because you do not know when and where the pass will take place from. |
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dode74
Joined: Aug 14, 2009
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Apr 20, 2012 - 19:45 |
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You can say "player X has PB" and choose not to move him. It says he "is allowed" in the skill description, not he must. Anyway, I've responded on TFF. Happy to keep it there. |
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johnnih
Joined: Feb 26, 2012
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Apr 20, 2012 - 19:50 |
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| Sigmar1 wrote: | | There appears to be a concensus that a strict interpretation of the current rules would preclude using PB on a HMP. |
Not exactly consensus I'd say. King Ghidra raised good points and has not been disproven. It is basically a "garion camp" saying the ruler part is pivotal and a "ghidra camp" saying it isn't. i'm part of the latter for record. I read it like him and don't understand why the ruler are made centre of interest here.
Note that some people have mentioned squares allowing interceptions, squares adjacent to the thrower and squares adjacent to the catcher as valid targets for a pass blocker. The rules specifically mentions the target empty square though. HMP has a target square even if the ball will rarely land just there. |
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nin
Joined: May 27, 2005
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Apr 20, 2012 - 20:10 |
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To be a bit productive:
camp "ruler part has a point", because HMP is declared, then you have player X with Pass Block and he's close enought to reach the HMPasser's TZ, now the HMP coach may like to know if that guy will move or not before selecting target square, while the PB one would like to know the square before choosing to move or not...so when the move happens makes a (tiny?) difference...and rules state that player moves once the ruler is there...and there is no range ruler.
Probably movement should happen "once everithing else in the pass has been declared" but thing is that's not in the rules, so I supose that game designers didn't thought much about it...
Edit just in case: I don't wanted to sound critic there, it's hard to foresee everithing in such a complex game. I was just pointing out that either PB on HMP was not intended to be or it was not considered very important. |
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polardragon
Joined: May 07, 2011
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Apr 20, 2012 - 21:03 |
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I admire the effort to parse vague rules into a series of discrete software actions.
The way I have always interpreted the rules, HMP is a low percentage gimme. Anything but a 1 puts the ball anywhere on the field and nothing the other team can do about it. On the flip side, you may not be able to catch it either without a little luck and Diving Catch on at least one (better odds with two) receivers near the target square. Not really something to build your core offense around but a gimmick trick play for desperate situations.
Devil's Advocate moment:
If I had a PB player it would be nice to get his Disturbing Presence / Diving Catch three squares closer to the HMP target square or get in position to capitalize on a thrower fumble. These sorts of things could be house ruled in a table top environment, but I can't see a workable way to translate it into valid code.
Interesting discussion, and good news that either (or both!) of these skills are on their way. Thanks for all the hard work! |
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Craftnburn
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
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Apr 20, 2012 - 21:12 |
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| Garion wrote: | | The rule specifically says that Passblock is only used when the range ruler is used |
No, it doesn't at all. It says: | CRP wrote: | | The move is made out of sequence, after the range has been measured, but before any interception attempts have been made. |
No mention is made of the range ruler in any way. It also says | CRP wrote: | | A legal destination puts the player in a position to attempt an interception, an empty square that is the target of the pass, or with his tackle zone on the thrower or catcher. |
In the case of a HMP, there can be no interception but certainly "an empty square that is the target of the pass" and a TZ on the thrower are possible.
The answer is simply this: when HMP is decalared and the target square chosen, the PBlocker has the following Legal destinations: The empty target square or a putting his TZ on the Thrower.
The only additional question would be if the target square of the HMP is occupied, is that player then considered the "catcher"? We know that the pass probably wont end up there, but it could, thus I would consider him the "catcher" for purposes of PB. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Apr 20, 2012 - 21:15 |
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It does it says the skill is used after the measure. After is all important here. |
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Craftnburn
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
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Apr 20, 2012 - 21:21 |
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It says "after the range has been measured". Nothing about "only used when the range ruler is used" (which you erroneously claimed). Naming your target square for HMP will also "measure" the range.
Furthermore, the reason it is performed "after the range has been measured" is to establish the destination of the pass so as to determine the legal destinations for PB. HMP simply does this without the need for the range ruler. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Apr 20, 2012 - 21:28 |
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Hmp does not measure. That is the point. There is no measurement involved. Measuring passes is discussed earlier in the book. |
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