FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Joined: Oct 17, 2004

Posted: Mar 16, 2005 - 22:31

IMO the second round robin could be held a bit earlier. Otherwise the teams who get to the finals in first KO tourney will have much more spp and get at least to the semis in the next one and then they again get more spp than the "poor" teams...by the time of second round-robin tourney there will be a huge gap between the best and the worst teams, especially if someone suffers RIP or two early on.

Then the high-spp teams will get even more spp passing, blocking and smashing through the "rookie" teams in second round robin, just before the grande finale. I think that after a round-robin some teams *cough*elves*cough* might be so beat up, their TR will be nowhere near the minimum of 175 needed to even enter the Skavenblight Invitational.

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Karhumies

Joined: Oct 17, 2004

Posted: Mar 16, 2005 - 22:43

BTW, is it possible to arrange Swiss tournaments on fumbbl? That format means all the players will play a fixed amount of games. The pairings on the first round are random and from there on the players are seeded against each other based on their points/rank in the current tournament. E.g. round 1 winners will play another random round 1 winner, tiers play other random round 1 tiers and losers play other random round 1 losers. The players are seeded against each other so that no one playes against each other more than once max, except in the finals.

IMO this kind of tournament format is good in the long run, because

a)every team gets the same amount of matches, except the finalists or semis+finals, who deserve more spp than the pthers
b)no cherry-picking possible for the most active players in open round-robins. there are always guys who have practically no life beyond the internet, who get a huge advantage over casual players
c)as you play against teams that are about your rank, you don't have to concede a rookie Elves vs advanced Khemri match-ups
d)"bad" coaches are willing to play more games, when they face other round 1 losers instead of having to drop out every time due to round 1 loss, either because the other guy is a professional fumbbler or he just got a crappy seeding on round 1

If it would be somehow possible, I'd like to see at least one Swiss tourney in Season 1 to get some player opinions and feedback of how it goes and if the system is suitable for further use. The tourney should be preferably early or mid-season, when the teams are about equal in strength.

Tyrant

Joined: Oct 01, 2004

Posted: Mar 16, 2005 - 23:06

Karhumies wrote:

IMO the second round robin could be held a bit earlier. Otherwise the teams who get to the finals in first KO tourney will have much more spp and get at least to the semis in the next one and then they again get more spp than the "poor" teams...by the time of second round-robin tourney there will be a huge gap between the best and the worst teams, especially if someone suffers RIP or two early on.

Then the high-spp teams will get even more spp passing, blocking and smashing through the "rookie" teams in second round robin, just before the grande finale. I think that after a round-robin some teams *cough*elves*cough* might be so beat up, their TR will be nowhere near the minimum of 175 needed to even enter the Skavenblight Invitational.

Good points, maybe the TR max. 200 tournaments should be set after the Great Grudge Bowl (which btw. meant to be the biggest of the tournaments..the "grand finale"... Wink

). So that teams surpassing the TR 150 mark don't have a chance to play any other games before the big one.

Another way. Maybe a better way might be to tweak the season a bit. Lower the TR requirements in some so that the higher TR teams wont be able to join.
Thus maybe making one of the tourneys a max 130 TR to give the teams who didn't reach the playoff in the first tourney a chance.
But we have to remember that some of this will even out with time aswell..

Another thing...the Skavenblight Invitational is meant to be tough to get into. Only allowing the cream of the crop...

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Tyrant

Joined: Oct 01, 2004

Posted: Mar 16, 2005 - 23:07

Karhumies wrote:

BTW, is it possible to arrange Swiss tournaments on fumbbl? That format means all the players will play a fixed amount of games. The pairings on the first round are random and from there on the players are seeded against each other based on their points/rank in the current tournament. E.g. round 1 winners will play another random round 1 winner, tiers play other random round 1 tiers and losers play other random round 1 losers. The players are seeded against each other so that no one playes against each other more than once max, except in the finals.

IMO this kind of tournament format is good in the long run, because

a)every team gets the same amount of matches, except the finalists or semis+finals, who deserve more spp than the pthers
b)no cherry-picking possible for the most active players in open round-robins. there are always guys who have practically no life beyond the internet, who get a huge advantage over casual players
c)as you play against teams that are about your rank, you don't have to concede a rookie Elves vs advanced Khemri match-ups
d)"bad" coaches are willing to play more games, when they face other round 1 losers instead of having to drop out every time due to round 1 loss, either because the other guy is a professional fumbbler or he just got a crappy seeding on round 1

If it would be somehow possible, I'd like to see at least one Swiss tourney in Season 1 to get some player opinions and feedback of how it goes and if the system is suitable for further use. The tourney should be preferably early or mid-season, when the teams are about equal in strength.

sure it's possible to make a swiss tourney...maybe thats even a the change were looking for...

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"I don't care what you're doing, so much as the idiotic way you're doing it"

Karhumies

Joined: Oct 17, 2004

Posted: Mar 16, 2005 - 23:16

Umm...how about this:

Open round-robin
KO with max TR
KO with max TR
Swiss
KO
Open round-robin
[KO, "grande finale" part 1??]
Skavenblight with min TR, "grande finale" part 2
(Protagonists), the final match for the fans

Any suggestions are welcome.

Prymja

Joined: Feb 25, 2005

Posted: Mar 16, 2005 - 23:40

Karhumies wrote:

Umm...how about this:

Open round-robin
KO with max TR
KO with max TR
Swiss
KO
Open round-robin
[KO, "grande finale" part 1??]
Skavenblight with min TR, "grande finale" part 2
(Protagonists), the final match for the fans

Any suggestions are welcome.

I like the idea, except lets change the Part 1 and part 2 into one big tourny, starting with a RR, then swinging into a KO with all the teams that where in the RR, from there you go to the Skavenblight.

That will allow a few of the teams in the Big Tourny to try to equal back up to a few of the top teams.

Karhumies

Joined: Oct 17, 2004

Posted: Mar 16, 2005 - 23:43

1)Do you mean that in the "part 1" KO tourney, the round-robin winner will play the round-robin loser, the RR 2nd best against the RR second-worst and so on..?

2)And the winners of these matches will get to Skavenblight KO, where they are seeded randomly?

If so, that sounds great to me. Smile

Tyrant

Joined: Oct 01, 2004

Posted: Mar 16, 2005 - 23:46

I though about changing the Kislev Classics to a swiss tournament (stil using the The Race Similarity Chart to set up the first round) and doing a little schedule changing:

Round Robin (Dawn Of Blood Challenge)
KO max 130 (a new one) - KO max 200 (Tribal 'Eadsplitta Cup) <-- both playing the same time
KO max 150 (Loren Forest Fayrie Folk Cup)
Swiss (Kislev Classics)
KO max 200 (Worlds Edge Mountains Monumental Cup)
Round Robin (Great Grudge Bowl)
KO min 175 (maybe 200) (Skavenblight Invitational)
Single match (Protagonist's Prowl Promotional)

_________________
"I don't care what you're doing, so much as the idiotic way you're doing it"

Karhumies

Joined: Oct 17, 2004

Posted: Mar 16, 2005 - 23:51

Tyrant wrote:

KO max 130 (a new one) - KO max 200 (Tribal 'Eadsplitta Cup) <-- both playing the same time

Two questions:

a)Any team with TR over 130 will go to Eadsplitta Cup, meaning the Elf coaches have to lower their TR if they wish to participate in the smaller one instead?

b)What about TR 130- teams? Can they choose the cup they are about to enter? I can imagine a TR 126 team with loads of extra cash willing to get a Star for the 'Eadsplitta and win at least their round one opponent. Smile

Karhumies

Joined: Oct 17, 2004

Posted: Mar 16, 2005 - 23:55

My suggestion is that either

a) There are no tournaments during the 'Eadsplitta or the Fairie Folk cup, so the coaches have to participate in both

or b) Those two are played at the same time, meaning everyone can choose between running and bashing

Tyrant

Joined: Oct 01, 2004

Posted: Mar 17, 2005 - 00:03

you're probably right...then with the b option the shedule would look like:

Round Robin (Dawn Of Blood Challenge)
KO max 130 (a new one)
KO max 150 (Loren Forest Fayrie Folk Cup) - KO max 200 (Tribal 'Eadsplitta Cup) <-- both playing the same time
Swiss (Kislev Classics)
KO max 200 (Worlds Edge Mountains Monumental Cup)
Round Robin (Great Grudge Bowl)
KO min 175 (maybe 200) (Skavenblight Invitational)
Single match (Protagonist's Prowl Promotional)

how would that look?

_________________
"I don't care what you're doing, so much as the idiotic way you're doing it"

Karhumies

Joined: Oct 17, 2004

Posted: Mar 17, 2005 - 00:06

Here is an idea:

Round Robin (Dawn Of Blood Challenge)
KO max 150 (Kislev Classics)
KO max 150 (Loren Forest Fayrie Folk Cup) - KO max 200 (Tribal 'Eadsplitta Cup) <-- both playing the same time
Swiss (New one)
KO max 200 (Worlds Edge Mountains Monumental Cup)
Round Robin (Great Grudge Bowl)
Skavenblight qualification round. Single KO round, pairing: Grudge Bowl best vs Grudge Bowl worst, GB 2nd vs GB 2nd worst etc. Winners straight to Skavenblight.
KO, "grande finale" (Skavenblight Invitational). Any leftover places for entering Skavenblight will go to teams with the highest TR.
Single match (Protagonist's Prowl Promotional)

Last edited by Karhumies on %b %17, %2005 - %00:%Mar; edited 2 times in total

Karhumies

Joined: Oct 17, 2004

Posted: Mar 17, 2005 - 00:10

Looks like we were typing at the same time. Smile

I believe that now we just have to adjust a few small details.

I)the time of Kislev: is it the first KO tourney or the Swiss round? Also what should be the TR cap for first KO? 130/150?

II)What will the new tourney (first Ko or Swiss) be like?

III)Method of entering the Skavenblight, Prymja had this original idea I used in my reply above

IV)Should TR 150- teams choose themselves which tourney (Fairies or 'Eadsplitta) thay participate in. I suggest that by default they'll go to Forest cup but if the coach so desires, they are free to take on da Big Guys in 'Eadsplitta. Smile

Tyrant

Joined: Oct 01, 2004

Posted: Mar 17, 2005 - 00:34

heh...well to start from the top.

Point I and II: are up for discussion.

Point III: I'm not so hook on the idea since it shifts the focus. Making the Skavenblight Invitational the big one (and making the Grudge Bowl seem like a qualifying tourney, even though it has playoffs and all that) and also changing the feel of the Skavenblight tourney as the sort of faraway elite tourney where the "cream of the crop" battled it out, without the distraction of the smaller teams.
That said, the seeding for the tourney is a good one, but IMO it need to be moved (say, making the Dawn Of Blood Challenge the sort of qualifier...and so on)

IV: My initial responce would be yes...since most coaches would probably choose the tournament where they have the biggest chance of winning. Thus making the under 150 TR teams choose the Faerie Folk cup.

_________________
"I don't care what you're doing, so much as the idiotic way you're doing it"

Karhumies

Joined: Oct 17, 2004

Posted: Mar 17, 2005 - 00:42

Here I have split the season into three parts. Each part has really nice matches by the end and they all begin with a long, "ordinary" cup.

I am not sure if this changes the Dwarven tournament idea too much but here goes:

Part 1: getting warmed up

Round Robin (Dawn Of Blood Challenge)
KO max 130 OR 150 (Kislev Classics OR a new one)
KO max 150 (Loren Forest Fayrie Folk Cup) - KO max 200 (Tribal 'Eadsplitta Cup) <-- both playing the same time

Part 2: mid-season

Swiss (Kislev Classics OR New one)
Round Robin (Great Grudge Bowl)
World's Edge qualification round. Single KO round, pairing: Grudge Bowl best vs Grudge Bowl worst, GB 2nd vs GB 2nd worst etc. Winners straight to World's Edge.

KO max 200 (Worlds Edge Mountains Monumental Cup)
-Due to Dwarven mines having a limited amount of suitable vaults for Blood Bowl, only the best teams are allowed to enter
-Any leftover places for entering Worlds Edge will go to teams with the highest TR. In case of tie there will be a coin toss.

Part 3: Final matches

KO min 175 Skavenblight Invitational. Min TR may change if it seems to be too low.
Single match (Protagonist's Prowl Promotional)

Last edited by Karhumies on %b %17, %2005 - %00:%Mar; edited 2 times in total