def909
Joined: Oct 25, 2005
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 Posted:
Feb 26, 2007 - 17:46 |
 
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| razta wrote: | | What about us that take under 30 sec to do theire turns and chat at the same time, i can just add something here. Its not fun for us that are fast to wait for ages for random crapplayers that take AGES to move theire players. also. i DONT wanna wait for other ppl that has to take care of theire babys answer phones juggle with burning torches or whatnot during the game that _I_ also play for fun. Its a twosided game, where there is TWO persons playing it. if you wanna run off multiple times during a game maby you shouldent have sarted it at the moment you did. also think about the other player that sits at theire behind waiting for you to finnish your turn. |
Please remind me to never play you. Besides, I doubt you can do your turns under 30 secs and still chat, unless you got extra arms and probably two head as well |
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Don´t ask Nuffle for better dice, ask him to make you a better coach. |
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Forteza
Joined: Oct 27, 2006
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| Posted:
Feb 26, 2007 - 17:49 |
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The objections against the 4 min. rules has nothing to do with people who wants to take more than 4. minutes about their turn! Its if something i Real Life should happen, which it doesnt that often, but one of the great thing about BB is that you are living yourself into the team, and even when you play casual you want to win, just not at all costs! So if you miss a turn because of something you cant control happens perhaps the rest of the game is phooked, and you will have to endure it. I agree that an average of more than 4. minutes per turn is annoying, but in some games where you are really having fun with your opponent and have alot of chat and jokes, for me the best games, you can take more. Some coaches add on their Bios if they are slow and other that they want a fast game, just read it and respect it, and dont play the coaches who dont play as fast as you want them to! The most annoying coaches I have played took perhaps four minutes considering every player befor emoving without chat, and yes thats annoying, but the 4. min. rule will not change that, it will however affect some of the most enjoyable games. |
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Leijonet
Joined: Jul 01, 2006
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| Posted:
Feb 26, 2007 - 17:56 |
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Well, I never thought I'd agree with razta on something, but I too have encountered a number of players who took up to 8 minutes finishing turns, took 2-3 minuter to start moving their players and generally making the exciting game of bloodbowl I had envisioned more like a waiting game. Relatively often I've heard the 4 minute signal sound and thought to myself "I really want that four-minute rule to be enforced!". On the other hand, I have also disappeared several times because of phonecalls, and I like the banter that I exchange with opponents, which of course takes time that is now more limited.
I still think that this won't be that big a change for most coaches, I could be wrong, but at the moment I don't think so. At worst I think that the very slow-playing coaches will have trouble, but a) those that need more than four minutes/turn are rare, and b) for those coaches, consider this new rule an additional challenge. What I'll do is just keep on playing and see what happens. I hope and think that Christer is reasonable enough too turn the four-minute rule off if a large number of coaches find it to be a problem. But really, couldn't we at least try playing as normal for a couple of weeks and see what happens before we decide that change is bad? |
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Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
Leijonet -Winging justice since 6/9-08 |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 26, 2007 - 17:59 |
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| Optihut wrote: | | JanMattys wrote: | Why do I have to see these silly comments?
blahblahblah
argument in this case is rather silly, |
If you want to debate, that's fine. If you want to start off by antoginizing me, then the debate is already over. Maybe that suggestion to act your age a couple of pages back does apply after all. |
My comment was to aimed at the suggestion of AG drop for RatOgres = 4 minutes time limit. Obviously (imho) they cover two different kind of problematics.
Didn't want to be offensive tho. Apologies in case. |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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| razta wrote: | | Its a twosided game, where there is TWO persons playing it. ........ also think about the other player . |
Razta using the 'respect the other person' arguement. Now there is something i thought id never see. Can we presume you will be respecting your opponents right to have fun from now on Razta? |
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Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intelligor illis -Ovid
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone |
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erzkanzler
Joined: Dec 05, 2005
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| Posted:
Feb 26, 2007 - 18:05 |
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Wow,
as heated as the arguments turn out to be, I still am thankful that this is a community that actually has constructive debate on touchy topics. I am amazed that I even witnessed a genuine apology and clarification of misunderstandings in this thread instead of fueling flame wars one can easily encounter elsewhere. Let's keep it that way shall we?
My take on this:
I have not been a very competitive, nor vocal, nor even regular player. As I favor the odd game I also favor light hearted spirit in games and chatting. Hence, ranked provided me with the best chance to meet a suitable competitor for the occasion, and I created teams there after having waited too long for my taste (and spontaneous urges to play) several times in unranked. Still I found the premise of unranked the most promising when I joined te site and I find that the 4 min rule enforcement that is in spirit with competitiveness actually provides an opportunity to reclaim playfulness for the unranked division. As I rather hesitantly joined ranked in the first place (and having met the over competitive type I wish I could avoid more easily - who propably wish the same for me) I am willing to move all my teams to unranked. In fact, to make a statement (even though of small impact as a less renowned coach) I just moved my teams there.
I hope that I will meet fine coaches again in the future, who enjoy banter and the likes as much as I do and actually play unranked. Should this not be the case, well, I just have to start anew in ranked I am afraid and annoy those who hate me chatting away in game instead of moving first (and feel that there should be a 2 min rule instead, as I find I can chat and move within 4 mins usually). Let's see how this playtesting phase turns out. If the types of coaches are now seperated into working divisions instead of all meeting in ranked it might actually still improve the site. So I am in favor of the 4 min rule not just for tournaments.
The one argument that I find very much understandable from the against point of view btw, is that we are not playing LRB anyway, since we are playing online and that fact should be accounted for. Sadly, to create a feasible compromise (like clicking OK after turnover) to compensate for that always relies on SkiJunkie altering the client, so there is not too much point arguing it here for site policy. Well, we can still hope (and perhaps ask SkiJunkie and Christer to create a pledge system respectively to actually pay them for their efforts if we have specific requests)
Good day to you.
edit: Please note that I did not move my teams in protest, but rather to provide an incentive to up the ante for unranked.
If more chitchatty coaches are in ranked, because there are just so much more games to find in ranked, why not see if the 4 min rule actually helps to imrove the fun for all types of coaches (also the 2 min movers) by making the divisions suit your playstile and by making unranked a division where it is cool to take your time. This does not address some issues that the 4 min time rule poses, so if it seems like a diversion of the issue I am sorry and won't argue the case any further. |
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Last edited by erzkanzler on %b %26, %2007 - %18:%Feb; edited 1 time in total |
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Optihut
Joined: Dec 16, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 26, 2007 - 18:08 |
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| JanMattys wrote: | My comment was to aimed at the suggestion of AG drop for RatOgres = 4 minutes time limit. Obviously (imho) they cover two different kind of problematics.
Didn't want to be offensive tho. Apologies in case. |
Ok, fair enough. I wasn't sure what you actually meant by the last bit that you objected to. I actually threw the rat ogre thing in as a joke, it wasn't meant as a serious argument. In turn my apologies for not using a smiley  |
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Christer
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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In response to the "reloads are always corrupt" argument:
You are mistaken. The reload problems are not caused by faulty savefiles. A vast majority of the reload problems are because of disconnections, where one side doesn't "notice" that the other has disconnected and plays on. With a clean reload, the probability of a fault is extremely low. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 26, 2007 - 18:18 |
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I still ask Christer to provide useful data about active teams in R and U (i.e. teams that played at least one game in the last 15 days, or 30 days).
I ask this to be able to evaluate the viability of the solution everybody here is giving: "move to U".
I would, but I need more data. I don't want to ban my teams in the desert that U is compared to R (I'm selfish, but I have only a small time-window at my disposal during wkends, and I don't want to waste it looking for games...). I am sure you "hardcore R players" can understand that.
And for the record: as much as I seem against this rule, I didn't vote for it being cancelled. I voted the "Tournaments only" option, cause it makes sense in a true competitive environment. I agree with Synn: casual R gamers would really be discouraged with this rul (which is NOT a good thing, no matter what you say, not even in the medium-long run).
But for R Tournaments it is a very nice add-on and I'm all for it. Because casual R games are just like the occasional BB game at the club (competitive, but not hardcore). Majors like the Fumbbl Cup or the Ulthuan Invitational are more like Eurobowl, and as such everything should be as tough and strict as possible. |
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Skolopender
Joined: Jun 17, 2006
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| Posted:
Feb 26, 2007 - 18:19 |
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| Christer wrote: | In response to the "reloads are always corrupt" argument:
You are mistaken. The reload problems are not caused by faulty savefiles. A vast majority of the reload problems are because of disconnections, where one side doesn't "notice" that the other has disconnected and plays on. With a clean reload, the probability of a fault is extremely low. |
But still a lot of work compared to saying "brb"... |
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Lobbying for a Troll team. If Bonehead Ogres can have one, why not one for Trolls? Power to the Trolls! |
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Christer
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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In response to people transferring their teams to U in "protest":
Seems like a silly thing to do, when I have stated that this rule will be reviewed after an initial period of testing. Any actions you take now will not be undoable in case I decide to change the rule.
Obviously, it's your choice to do what you want, but don't come whining at the admins if you realize it was a mistake later on. |
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Christer
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 26, 2007 - 18:23 |
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| JanMattys wrote: | I still ask Christer to provide useful data about active teams in R and U (i.e. teams that played at least one game in the last 15 days, or 30 days).
I ask this to be able to evaluate the viability of the solution everybody here is giving: "move to U".
I would, but I need more data. I don't want to ban my teams in the desert that U is compared to R (I'm selfish, but I have only a small time-window at my disposal during wkends, and I don't want to waste it looking for games...). I am sure you "hardcore R players" can understand that.
And for the record: as much as I seem against this rule, I didn't vote for it being cancelled. I voted the "Tournaments only" option, cause it makes sense in a true competitive environment. I agree with Synn: casual R gamers would really be discouraged with this rul (which is NOT a good thing, no matter what you say, not even in the medium-long run).
But for R Tournaments it is a very nice add-on and I'm all for it. Because casual R games are just like the occasional BB game at the club (competitive, but not hardcore). Majors like the Fumbbl Cup or the Ulthuan Invitational are more like Eurobowl, and as such everything should be as tough and strict as possible. |
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=stats&op=games
Found it myself.
Doesn't look very promising, tho...  |
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Christer
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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In response to flooding this topic into other threads:
Please don't. If you want to provide feedback, keep it civil and in this thread. I provide you with a way to give feedback regarding this topic, and have stated that I will evaluate this. Please show enough respect to others to not let this topic spill over to their threads in the forums.
Thank you. |
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Ash
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 26, 2007 - 18:33 |
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Well...
Actualy, any kind of action of protestation is stupid.
Christer said "give it a try for a period of time". Then what the problem with trying it?
If we don t like it in 2 or 3 weeks, then we'll protest. |
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Ash |
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