FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Primarch

Joined: Dec 14, 2003

Posted: Nov 24, 2015 - 01:26

Since the subject kinda changed, figured I'd reply to this last post.

If this is the case, then why would anyone play anything but bash? In the end, in long term leagues and other things, they are better at player removal, and the soft elf teams are going to die just because of the low AV values. War Dancers with a ton of SPP points likely will still have AV 7. Thoughts?

JackassRampant

Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Posted: Nov 24, 2015 - 01:39

Soft teams can usually win and die at the same time. They tend to be fast and agile to make up for being soft. And they rebuild fast.

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Uedder

Joined: Aug 03, 2010

Posted: Nov 24, 2015 - 02:00

Elfs can win no matter what in the hands of a skilled coach.

Ag3 av7 teams like norse, amazons and underworld do suffer more from attrition at high tv.

Skaven can always win if they have 2+ gutters.

harvestmouse

Joined: May 13, 2007

Posted: Nov 24, 2015 - 02:38

licker wrote:

Largely in a league where you have persistent divisions or levels, or whatever, then it's not always about just the next game, or just that season.

Generally, you WANT to ruin the other guys teams so that he cannot compete with your team in the future. It's more rare where you want his team to be competitive through the rest of the season frankly.

You have a lot of league experience, and it seems there are 2 schools of thought.

In my opinion, I think the opposite. To have a continuous good league campaign, you need as many opponents "on side" as possible.

If that means giving up T16 blocks or going easy when the match is over. I believe that your opponent is more likely to show a similar consideration in the future. So in that season where you are making your run, it could make all the difference.

Obviously, there are those opponents who will go hard on you whatever. With those going soft doesn't make a jot of difference, so it's in your interest to be hard.

However the fewer blood feuds you have (and they build up) the more chance you have of being successful with a team.

thoralf

Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Posted: Nov 24, 2015 - 02:46

licker wrote:

Generally, you WANT to ruin the other guys teams so that he cannot compete with your team in the future. It's more rare where you want his team to be competitive through the rest of the season frankly.

Then so much the worse with the suggestion that we should redirect toward league play coaches who are suprised by what they perceive as a lack of sportsmanship.

At the very least, we should agree that there are other factors involved that may escape new coaches. For instance, I've just witnessed a Fumbbl Cup game where the game was decided. The winner was behaving with magnanimity, but then the crowd kept requesting a clear pitch. So he obliged.

This has little to do with the CRP1, in my opinion. I might have done the same as that coach, or not, depending upon the teams or the specific circumstances. All the social cues that may be missing to someone who comes here to play a game here and there.

It takes time to get used to all this.

***

In my opinion, one should ideally try to play all the (serious) teams. This can't wait until some demi-God introduces a fairer rulebook or more gentlemanship. Beyond that, my own reasons to play Elves are two-fold.

First, it's pure tactics, and it's the kind of game that is the most challenging to me. It's rewarding as much as it's draining. One miscalculated decision can become a nightmare. One greedy move can lead to the death of a big part of your team.

Which leads me to the second reason. To me Elves embody the virtues it takes to face one's death. When I die, I want to do it the Elf way, so I might as well try to emulate this by being honorably humbled by snakes turn after turn on a BB field. I believe that morality has strategical value, and playing Elfs can be a way to show it.

The hardest may be to deal with pure Elf hate, but even that can be understood. Perhaps it comes from coaches who got outplayed by a handful of them after having totally dominated games all the way until ultimate losses. The same can be witnessed regarding pure OTTD gutter runners. Some just can't let these rascals live.

This won't prevent me from playing Skavens, since it has prophecized by Licker's Astrology.

JackassRampant

Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Posted: Nov 24, 2015 - 03:14

I don't think fouling is ALWAYS good in a league. I tend to go harder on my own division, or early in games, or when I have a Bribe. In the NBFL, for every 7 games I get 3 against teams I want to cripple and 4 against teams I don't want to cripple.

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licker

Joined: Jul 10, 2009

Posted: Nov 24, 2015 - 05:42

harvestmouse wrote:

licker wrote:

Largely in a league where you have persistent divisions or levels, or whatever, then it's not always about just the next game, or just that season.

Generally, you WANT to ruin the other guys teams so that he cannot compete with your team in the future. It's more rare where you want his team to be competitive through the rest of the season frankly.

You have a lot of league experience, and it seems there are 2 schools of thought.

In my opinion, I think the opposite. To have a continuous good league campaign, you need as many opponents "on side" as possible.

If that means giving up T16 blocks or going easy when the match is over. I believe that your opponent is more likely to show a similar consideration in the future. So in that season where you are making your run, it could make all the difference.

Obviously, there are those opponents who will go hard on you whatever. With those going soft doesn't make a jot of difference, so it's in your interest to be hard.

However the fewer blood feuds you have (and they build up) the more chance you have of being successful with a team.

Well as I said, it depends on the way the league is constructed, but compared to R or B you generally will see the other guys team again, same season or next season, so it behooves you to do a bit extra in terms of removing his good players. Should you just foul random guys with little spp at the end of a game? Probably not, but then again those guys don't hurt as much when they do get taken off a team.

But generally if you are in a competitive division of a league your interest is more in terms of what you need to happen for your team, not for someone elses. So it comes down to if the team you are beating on is a bottom feeder or in competition with you for whatever you are playing for. If you're the bottom feeder then honestly, why wouldn't you foul the hell out of everyone else?

This is another one of those 'it depends', but it depends on the current situation in your league, not on anything general.

Quote:

Then so much the worse with the suggestion that we should redirect toward league play coaches who are suprised by what they perceive as a lack of sportsmanship.

Not so much about sportsmanship as it is about community. If you join a league, you generally get to know the other coaches, talk to them, have an understanding of what's acceptable or not in the league. If you cannot stand any fouls, then frankly, blood bowl is not the game for you.

But as much as JR and I sound like blood thirsty goons, that's not really the reality in the leagues we are in. Especially in high TV leagues, and leagues where there is 'accelerated' player development, you had better be fouling the hell out of the monsters which crop up.

JackassRampant

Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Posted: Nov 24, 2015 - 16:30

Lick, you know damn well that we don't just sound like bloodthirsty goons, we are bloodthirsty goons.

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Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor.

thoralf

Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Posted: Nov 25, 2015 - 00:32

Steve Irwin wrote:

Crocodiles are easy. They try to kill and eat you. People are harder. Sometimes they pretend to be your friend first.