MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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  Posted:
Oct 30, 2017 - 00:29 |
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Antithesisoftime
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
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  Posted:
Oct 30, 2017 - 02:47 |
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Seconded, take the +MA
On an undead team, MA8 is your fastest player, and with Ag4, he's practically an elf.
If you were a necro team, I'd still suggest taking MA, because more speed helps necro teams control the pitch |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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  Posted:
Oct 30, 2017 - 04:39 |
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Ooh. MA8, AG4. Can't pass it up. Get him Block, Sure Hands, and Sure Feet. |
_________________ Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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  Posted:
Oct 30, 2017 - 14:15 |
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By scoring and MVP nominating getting Block on him should not take too long. |
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Joe1982
Joined: Dec 31, 2015
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  Posted:
Oct 30, 2017 - 20:48 |
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Good stuff guys - that's what my gut told me but thought it was worth asking the experienced people on here. Cheers |
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Joe1982
Joined: Dec 31, 2015
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  Posted:
Nov 12, 2017 - 21:43 |
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Hello, back again with more ghouls questions!
My AG4 MA8 ghoul skilled up again and rolled a double 5. This means I could make him MA9. Or possibly I should go for guard. He has still yet to gain any skills so lacks block, so that is an option too. I'm thinking take the MA here - he could become a real flair player. I could give another ghoul block/surehands for when I'm facing strip ball (since if I take the MA it will be a long time before he gets either block or surehands).
Any thoughts on this? Cheers |
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BubbaDave
Joined: May 19, 2008
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  Posted:
Nov 12, 2017 - 23:03 |
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Antithesisoftime
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
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  Posted:
Nov 12, 2017 - 23:53 |
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Ma9, ag4
He's a gutter runner with +st
You can now one turn with him easily, and he will change games, end of story |
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DrPoods
Joined: Nov 14, 2013
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  Posted:
Nov 13, 2017 - 00:22 |
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Burn it with fire. |
_________________ "Gallifrey falls no more"
Do your part! Join the Adoption Agency NOW! |
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Stevar
Joined: Oct 31, 2017
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  Posted:
Nov 13, 2017 - 09:44 |
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Fourth ghoul is a bloat. > I disagree
Ghoul is 30k more expensive than zombie
Would you pay 30k to get a zombie with +dodge,+3MA+AG-AV,loose regen ? (and access to AG skills)?
I would and call the ghoul "expendable"
and a dirty idea, add side step to your ma8 ghoul for OTTD
Edit I worte block instead of dodge |
Last edited by Stevar on %b %13, %2017 - %16:%Nov; edited 1 time in total |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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  Posted:
Nov 13, 2017 - 11:11 |
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Zombies being durable and cheap is a great thing, because you can put them in contact with opponents to tie them up. Or just get in the way, screening etc. Also Fouling, assists.
Ghouls are very bad at those jobs
If you have too many ghouls you actually maybe don't have enough zombies on the pitch for those jobs |
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Loew
Joined: Feb 02, 2005
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  Posted:
Nov 13, 2017 - 12:15 |
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fourth ghoul is bloat if you don't use them all at once. If you use them all at once, it is hard to protect them all...depending on your opponent this may be a good idea or not
generally: +MA ist golden if it is on your fastest player type |
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Joe1982
Joined: Dec 31, 2015
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  Posted:
Nov 13, 2017 - 13:01 |
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Thanks guys. I didn't really consider how powerful it would be, but yeah it makes a lot of sense. He's already winning games at MA8 and AG4. I still have 4 ghouls despite using my -1MA blodger ghoul very aggressively. The plan was to try and run with 3 once he died, but it's not happened so far. In fact, having a fastish blodger who you don't mind dying is very useful. I may continue to use 4 ghouls and use one aggressively. |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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  Posted:
Nov 13, 2017 - 13:27 |
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Just to pick up on the ‘fourth Ghoul is bloat’ theme, the FUMBBL forum really does seem to have gone big on TV management of late. I like TV management to a point, it’s an important part of being a good progression format coach, but I think the general advice here has gone a little too far at times. Perhaps to the point where we’re giving newer coaches advice that is at the very least debateable.
On the pitch, Undead with four Ghouls have an average AV of 7.8, assuming you’re fielding all of your positionals and using Zombies as Linos (Skeletons with TS have the same chance of sticking around as Zombies and I like one for the MA, but let’s assume you value the AV more than the MA for the sake of argument). With three Ghouls, it’s 7.9. Either way, that’s not terrifically high, and the Undead weakness (even at low TV where they shine brightest) is how often they’re undermanned (surprisingly so, until you think about it a little). For the sake of 30 k, moving from a Zombie to a Ghoul makes plenty of sense to me. You’re paying for + 3 MA, +1 AG (and speed / agility kills, especially in situations where you’re men down. Your extra Zombie is going to be of little use when you’re 9 V 11), an in-built defence skill (Dodge) and access to Blodge (among other lovely things that Zombies can only dream of). For the loss of 1 AV and Regen. Plus, you don’t have to field all four if you don’t want to, perhaps one gets killed, and when you’re down to two Ghouls, you’re actually pretty slow and easy to kettle up. I accept that Regen is a consideration here, but to be frank, if your opponent is a good player, all Regenerations in the second half are likely to not matter anyway – the player is essentially out of the remainder of the game.
Zombies are necessary to mark things, I don’t really want to use a Ghoul for the job? Well, if you’re marking four things all the time, with AV8 it’s not going to take too long for those Zombies to go away. They are not Longbeards. I don’t necessarily think a team build should be based around the need to mark things all the time. Selective marking? Of course. Constant marking, though? Probably not great coaching, you can position more reasonably than that. You can’t protect four Ghouls? Well, perhaps you cannot all of the time. You certainly can while you maintain tempo, but I accept that’s not always possible, Blood Bowl is Blood Bowl. However, you can use a Ghoul as a ‘nibble’ and direct your opponent. It will likely have Blodge (the one you leave out / the one that is toughest to protect), so is at least sort of protected, perhaps more so than a one skill Zombie, depending on opposition skills. You have three more, and they’re not exactly super expensive if one dies in the line of duty anyway?
I accept Undead can be perfectly successful with 3 Ghouls. They’re a low TV powerhouse, and the difference in the hands of a good coach is in the noise enough such that faith in the 3 Ghoul roster can easily be reinforced by results. However, I don’t necessarily think it’s the way to go, and claiming bloat for the sake of 30 k is… Pushing it a bit. I think. We’re not talking 7th re-roll or second Norse Thrower here, are we? We’re talking 30 k for lots of goodness.
I appreciate that certain FUMBBL formats encourage absolutely ruthless TV management and reward it with huge on-pitch advantages. You can do things in the box with a super trim TV managed team that are incredibly tough to beat with teams growing ‘naturally’ (whatever that means). But not all formats are the same and growing pains are OK for certain races, they can lead to longer term success. I don’t think ruthless TV stuff should be default advice.
Sorry. Off topic rant? I suppose I’m not really talking to anyone in particular, it’s more of a general forum point. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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  Posted:
Nov 13, 2017 - 13:56 |
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Joe1982 wrote: |
My AG4 MA8 ghoul skilled up again and rolled a double 5. This means I could make him MA9.
Any thoughts on this? Cheers |
Take +MA.
As an aside, consider replacing the -MA Blodge Ghoul and fire the Niggled Skeleton immediately. |
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