Slick
Joined: Jul 03, 2004
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 Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 13:04 |
 
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Um, ive played well over a hundred games with skaven, and sorry to tell you but you should start with one GR 2 SV and a RO ... fill in the rest. This starting lineup has been far more successful than any other i've tried. The key is to use the linerats to score in your early matches so you can get them Block/one with Kick as soon as possible. Just the voice of experience here, I imagine many of you will disagree. And as far as the RO is concerned getting him early is vital to your teams survival. The faster he develops the harder your team is to defeat. Although it is true that ultimately the GRs are the core of your team, they skill up fast and come and go like the wind, so i wouldnt worry about having more than one to start cuz you can get a second one after one or two games, and they are gonna get skills, its unpreventable. |
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Optihut
Joined: Dec 16, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 13:12 |
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Easy for you to say with +ST block Rogre and 4 +Ma gutters 
My first skaven team was a big failure, despite (or maybe because of) an early rat ogre. Now I am faring slightly better, although I get beaten up a lot. I want to buy my fourth gutter before getting the rat ogre, though. |
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Telcontar
Joined: Nov 12, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 13:42 |
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As with all Big Guys dont use em till your other positionals are bought (woodies might be an exception).
Get him Guard and dont move him too much, dont blitz with him wait till you have contact or push a defender his way.
Use the RO Block as your last block always.
As on developing GR Sprint or catch are the worst picks you can make. Block, SideStep, Shadowing is really nasty. Dauntless, Horns on doubles then maybe at tackle for normal roll will make your GR blitzing machines.
Your linos are fast so if you have the possibilty handoff the ball to a lino and let him run off for the score.
As defence depending on your oppo skill in stalling and caging but actualy you should receive a chance to blitz the ball carrier sooner or later with MV 7 on average there will be a hole somewhere. Try to develop a blitzing GR for defence or even better a SV.
Try the impossible moves with your GR, somehow they work once in a while  |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 13:52 |
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| Fama wrote: | | I'm not a skaven expert, but I can give you a few pointers about team management: |
Me neither. I am currently absolutely NOT succesfull with skavens but I cannot pick oppenents (tournament team) and basher heavily taken their toll on the team (correct expression?)
| Quote: | | 1.) Repeat after me - nigglers are baaaad. Bad. Get it? Bad. One niggler in a team can do if they either go on the los, OR are very good (+ST or something). Just remember, that often they won't even show up. |
well, too muuccchhh nigglers are bad. 1 or 2 May be fine in a deep roster. Even skillless. Hey are you looking that much to 5 TR/4 str? Me not. That unskilled lino may well not show up. Whatever. But I'll send him on los everytime. And what if he get's the MVP? Should I care? it's an open environnement, not going to be a big deal.
Accumulation of injurys is a problem. Not some little ones. You may loose 10k once but you will win 50k when he dies instead of another linerat.
To summary. I think that good team management doesn't imply=>fire all valueless players.
| Quote: | | 2.) Always go block first. It's boring, but it works. On linemen you can go kick or DP first, but on positionals (ok, throwers excluded. I mean grunners with this.) get block first. Block makes them survive. Block, side step, diving tackle, maybe shadowing (but not both DT and shadowing). Don't take catch unless if you REALLY know what you're doing. |
yep.
| Quote: | | 3.) Don't develope oneturners. They're lame. But not only that, they'll suck all your spp's and make the team unbalanced. By the time you know what you're doing, maybe playing in a tournament, you can ignore this. |
kinda wrong. One-turner may help you. But it will close you games. I, for exemple, tend to become very carefull against teams with one turners. I may play better, but with luck, he can change a win in a draw at any time.
Especially with bashers. Push-push 1 turn requieres more rolls and can be defended. 1 turner not really. Push push requieres some players. 1turner not that much.
to summary:
1-turn=>cheesy tactic=>good results=>less games
| Quote: | | 4.) Don't take DP unless you're going to use it. I didn't check how long your DP has had the skill, but 3 fouls - 12 games. Not worth it in that case. It will decrease the amount of games you get, and your opponents might be potential foulers -> team hurt. |
hey, no really not. DP can help if requested: get the ref. Take out the guy you simply can't stop. Some coaches are 1 tactic users. Take them their keyplayer out and you may win it.
| Quote: | 5.) All in all, you're doing fine. Don't be afraid to ask for skillchoices on irc, they're usually reasonably answered (ignore kick and DP to doubles on a grunner, for example).
And the most important thing: Have fun. |
agrees. I think there's nothing wrong with your teams |
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zerkalo
Joined: Dec 12, 2005
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| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 14:28 |
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1. Foul more.
Your other team has made 7 fouls in 13 games. That's 3-5 times less than the ideal. The other team hardly has made more fouls, maybe not even one, didn't check.
Usually (mathematically) it is wise to do unassisted foul with rookie lineman on opponent's best player, if he has used apo, if ref doesn't have eye on you. On av8 1/5 he gets KO, 1/7 your player gets ejected. |
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torsoboy
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 14:30 |
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| Telcontar wrote: | As with all Big Guys dont use em till your other positionals are bought (woodies might be an exception).
Get him Guard and dont move him too much, dont blitz with him wait till you have contact or push a defender his way.
Use the RO Block as your last block always. |
Since Wild Animals don't lose their tackle zones on a 1, I say it's fair to start the turn with the RO, if all you are going to do is move him around. |
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The plural of anecdote isn't data. |
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Telcontar
Joined: Nov 12, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 14:44 |
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@torsoboy
ok correction dont take an action with your big guy if you might loose tacklezone (Really Stupid, BH) or get the chance for turnover (block, gfi) |
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Thomcat
Joined: Jul 20, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 15:05 |
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moved |
Last edited by Thomcat on %b %12, %2006 - %09:%Jul; edited 2 times in total |
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Sysiphos
Joined: Feb 03, 2006
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| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 15:09 |
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| zerkalo wrote: | | ... Usually (mathematically) it is wise to do unassisted foul with rookie lineman on opponent's best player, if he has used apo, if ref doesn't have eye on you. On av8 1/5 he gets KO, 1/7 your player gets ejected. |
Never foul without assists... it is not worth the action... use as many assists as needed to get the +2 on the injury roll. And always foul with a dirty player if you have one. |
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Alf115
Joined: Aug 17, 2005
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| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 15:34 |
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Thomcat : strip ball is on a normal roll for gutters  |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 15:39 |
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| zerkalo wrote: | 1. Foul more.
Your other team has made 7 fouls in 13 games. That's 3-5 times less than the ideal. The other team hardly has made more fouls, maybe not even one, didn't check.
Usually (mathematically) it is wise to do unassisted foul with rookie lineman on opponent's best player, if he has used apo, if ref doesn't have eye on you. On av8 1/5 he gets KO, 1/7 your player gets ejected. |
/me points at zerkalo 27% win percentage.
Zerk, you fail to consider many aspects here.
1-starting a foul war with so weak AV team and not trully bashy is insane. Ok so you foul: +1: 15/36 * 15/36= 17.3%
16.6% to get caught But probably a foul afterwards. And you rely way more on positionnal
2-Low AV would mean that you will usually be undermanned. Loosing the player is a bad move.
3-you need players on other tasks than fouling uselessly.
you say:
21 to 35 fouls in 13 games O_o
woaaaa |
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Tophat
Joined: Jun 01, 2006
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| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 15:57 |
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yeah that does kind of open the door to a foul war , which unless you are starting with more players than your opponent with av7 you are veyr likely to lose if your opponent knows how to foul and is happy to trade 1 for 1 on fouls with you |
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torsoboy
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 16:06 |
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| Thomcat wrote: |
I personally do NOT take any kind of extra movement with gutters. It just makes them Fouling objects. |
That's a non-argument since GRs are always foul targets no matter what. Sure, take +MA if you roll it. But don't turn your team in a one trick pony team, is what I'm saying. |
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The plural of anecdote isn't data. |
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Skulll
Joined: Dec 08, 2005
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| Posted:
Jul 11, 2006 - 16:08 |
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Rat ogres are great for rats, mine have done heck of a large part of my casualties. And without block or mutations, just can't wait to get one with those. And it was not just some CAS, it was 11 in 10 games and 5 in four. You just have to use a.k.a. blitz with them. Sure you'll lose 1 out of 6 blitzes, but so what. Just don't blitz that critical blitz with them. If you want to be reasonable. I don't.
Only problem I have with 'em is that they age. First one aged - av on second skill roll and second one aged a niggle on first. Damn that it p***es me off.. |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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I never coach Skaven. But i play against them a lot. I love it when....
They stand toe to toe and try and beat ANYTHING up. They will lose and die, which is great.
They use a Roger. i love rogers, they make Mino's look useful. I can isolate it and kill it with its pansy av8 and rubbish no block 2die-against-arnt-a-problem-ness.
They start their turn by creating a hole with the roger. i start getting ready for my turn and a backfield blitz on the ball.
they use a one turner. Almost every coach sees cheesy one turners as a 'please kick me to death' sign hung right over yuor team. i will do so and feel no shame. And i dont tend to foul a lot, so imagine a Psycho Foul Monkey facing one turners.
They think Blodge will save a str2 gutter from being sacked.
However, I hate it when....
Their Gutters have Side Step and DT or shadowing.
They give someone horns and duantless
They have a thrower good enough to keep backfield with the ball and reliably deliver it over half the pitch length.
They have decent SV capable of blitzing effectively AND getting away again afterwards.
they defend like elves but attack like a pack of really really fast wolves.
They have an ag5 leaper
So draw your own conclusions from that. |
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