Carnis
Joined: Feb 03, 2009
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 Posted:
Feb 07, 2011 - 06:47 |
 
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Nice stats update  . But where are all the winning nurgle? And why are underworld the 5th winning race at 1800+ ? |
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Frankenstein
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 07, 2011 - 07:06 |
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| Carnis wrote: | | And why are underworld the 5th winning race at 1800+ ? |
Because "race" doesn't really apply here.
It's basically just one team:
Nestoroide's dubiworld.
98/36/8 ftw! |
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Gromrilram
Joined: Aug 28, 2006
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| Posted:
Feb 07, 2011 - 08:35 |
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deleted to go back to topic |
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Last edited by Gromrilram on %b %08, %2011 - %01:%Feb; edited 2 times in total |
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freak_in_a_frock
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 07, 2011 - 09:43 |
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So orcs and chaos are the most played in reality. weirdly i would expect them to be the most played ranked teams too  |
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Grod
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 07, 2011 - 09:48 |
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So Skaven, Lizardmen and Wood Elf coaches are the power-gamers of the Box. Shame on you! Pick a race that is more challenging to win with! |
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I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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Feb 07, 2011 - 11:19 |
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| Meech wrote: | | shadow46x2 wrote: | FMSTAN's entire post is negated by use of the "it's BLOODbowl" argument
--j |
Your post is negated by saying "it's BLOODbowl" so FMSTAN's post stands. |
Well Shadows post obviously stands because you said "it's BLOODbowl" there by negating your post. |
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Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
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| Posted:
Feb 07, 2011 - 16:43 |
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| Gromrilram wrote: | | Catalyst32 wrote: | | Gromrilram wrote: | thx catalyst for showing us your opinion about bashers in box again.
also thank you for leading the path in another direction... by having played with undead more than with any other race.
EDIT:
according to the statistic above 14% of the games played were elves.
according to your stats in bbox 12% of your games were elves. |
Great criticism from the guy playing 50% of his games with Chaos Dwarves.
I have only had 2 Basher teams in the Box EVER.
But I have given Humans as many games as I could get and High Elf and Slann.
On top of that Dwarves are the team I am worst at using.
But attacking ME doesn't change the fact that the Box is overloaded with people that do not activate any non-basher type teams.
The fact is the Box stinks because of the lack of variety and it is going to DIE again as soon as Ranked goes FFB.
I've done my part... time to STOP MOCKING and start playing some Ballers in the Box. |
see... i dont mind people playing bashers.
i never said i wouldnt play bashers.
i solely pointed out that IF someone complained about that... and than is playing less elves than average, it is a bit selfrighteous.
so really... i didnt say anything wether your point is right or not. i only said that if your point is right, you are part of the problem, because saying "I've done my part... " is beautiful hypocrisy, while saying it after someone pointed out that you havent, is beautiully stupid.
ps:
i like how you pointed out my 45% CD and ignored my 41% skaven... though it still doesnt matter.
EDIT:
and with 2 bashers EVER you mean 1 orc 2 undead and 1 dwarf? |
See... I ignored your Skaven... just like YOU ignored that my post was about MORE than just Elves... it was also about Humans and other soft teams. It has been pointed out that Undead are not exactly bashers in the traditional sense.
I had forgotten about that Orcs team I made back when the Black Box 1st appeared and that I only played 3 games with before retiring same goes for my 1st Undead team. Those teams were made for the OLD Box of LRB4... this thread is about the CURRENT or NEW Box of CRP/LRB6.
See... it's a bit disingenuous to even attempt to make the argument you made... because I am still right that too many people play Bashers in the Box.
See... even if I were truly a hypocrite... I am still correct in what I say... and your cherry picked criticism does NOTHING to change that.
Se... using that old Olinsky-ite technique of trying to destroy the messenger never succeeds to destroy the MESSAGE... and the message is what has importance. |
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Carnis
Joined: Feb 03, 2009
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| Posted:
Feb 07, 2011 - 16:55 |
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| Frankenstein wrote: | | Carnis wrote: | | And why are underworld the 5th winning race at 1800+ ? |
Because "race" doesn't really apply here.
It's basically just one team:
Nestoroide's dubiworld.
98/36/8 ftw! |
Where do you get this number? All I see is 22/7/12 |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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| Posted:
Feb 07, 2011 - 16:57 |
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| Frankenstein wrote: |
98/36/8 ftw! |
What am I missing here?  |
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freak_in_a_frock
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 07, 2011 - 16:58 |
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Define 'Too many'
Then define 'Bashers'
To me it sounds more of an opinion than a fact. For example if you say that undead are not bashers, then it is only fair to say that teams that do less than or equal to the casualties that undead do aren't bashers. Taking this into account we can see that the basher teams are dwarves, Khemri and chaos dwarves, all other teams average less cas than undead. These make up 17.67% of the teams active in the Box. or around 1 in 6. Now using that as a basis for too many we can also see than non bashers races i.e elves + skaven make up 16.85% of the teams active in the Box. Quite close to be honest. So therefore it is also fair to say there are too many soft races in the box too
edit:- this was using the http://www.cmanu.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/bb/stats/matchstatsAll-2011-02-06.gif link |
Last edited by freak_in_a_frock on %b %07, %2011 - %18:%Feb; edited 2 times in total |
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Rijssiej
Joined: Jan 04, 2005
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| Posted:
Feb 07, 2011 - 16:58 |
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| Mr_Foulscumm wrote: | | Frankenstein wrote: |
98/36/8 ftw! |
What am I missing here? |
Cas against... |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Feb 07, 2011 - 18:36 |
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Racial Distribution and Bash are the same regardless of Box or Ranked...The higher your TR/TV the less diversity you get and thus the more bashey Blood Bowl becomes. IMO there are only 5 races that are viable at high tr/tv, and the majors overall stats back it up, they are Chaos/Dorf/Orc/Dark Elf and Wood elf. So it is logical that coaches who want to play a race that has the ability to reach high TV levels and still are playable, meaning have a decent shot at winning would choose one of those 5 races. Wood Elves obviously in the Box have a lot harder time but they are still a great team to play if your only purpose is to win games.
So for my evidence that there is no diffrence when it comes to racial distribution and the bash theory at high TR/TV I did this.
I took the total stats for 4 coaches who play a lot with one team and IMO do not "pick" matches but take on all comers and play some Blood Bowl..They also use none of the power house teams.
My humble self with the Blood Sea Buccaneers.(Humans)
Arktoris and his Hellbound Charioteers (Norse)
Manbush and his Clint Eastwood Roles (Undead)
Kenty and his Sleepers in Metropolis (Necro)
Looking at the racial breakdown of these 4 teams I think it is very obvious that Ranked is just as bash heavy as Box. All of these teams play the full range of the TR scale and go up and down the spectrum as the CAS mount up and we all have to rebuild. I dont know how many times combined these 4 teams have been slagged and had to rebuild but I would quess it is over 100 times. One of those teams litterally was Killed off, no players at one point.
Legend:
Buccaneers/ Hellbound/ Clint Eastwood/ Sleepers
Amazon: 25/ 15/ 21/ 41
Chaos: 63/ 83/ 285/ 292
CD: 25/ 29/ 68/ 123
DE: 43/ 40/ 45/ 74
Dorf: 16/ 32/ 160/ 164
Elf: 15/ 31/ 24/ 13
gobo: 2/ 10/ 1/ 3
Fling: 2/ 4/ 1/ 2
HE: 34/ 15/ 22/ 27
Human: 40/ 51/ 34/ 97
Khemri: 16/ 35/ 87/ 95
Lizzy: 27/ 34/ 33/ 54
Necro: 29/ 20/ 74/ 93
Norse: 26/ 18/ 38/ 56
Nurgle: 9/ 21/ 24/ 67
Ogre: 24/ 82/ 20/ 14
Orc: 59/ 83/ 255/ 267
Skaven: 46/ 34/ 54/ 76
Undead: 32/ 39/ 40/ 121
Vamp: 11/ 31/ 17/ 12
WE: 40/ 31/ 31/ 49
Total 584/738/1334/1740
Total matches: 4396
races with a winning record VS
Buccaneers: Ogre and khemri
Hellbound: Ogre
Clint Eastwood: Khmeri/Ogre/vamp/Norse
Sleepers: Ogre
Top 5 teams played against by %
Buccaneers: Choas/ DE/ Orc/ Skaven/ WE
Hellbound: Chaos/ DE/ Human/ Ogre/ Orc
Clint Eastwood: Chaos/ Dorf/ Khemri/ necro/ Orc
Sleepers: Chaos/ CD/ Dorf/ Orc/ Undead
So the purpose of this is to make the point that it does not matter if it is box or ranked....Bash is the natural way of things in Blood Bowl. So even if every one made non bash teams the natural order of things would eventually take over...as the teams all started to hit around TV2000 you would see a lot of these non bash teams fall by the wayside...Sure any coach can take a team to high levels of TV/TR but it takes persitance and thick skin when it comes to CAS. But the majority of teams will hit high TV/TR ranges and then hit a bad stretch and plummet back down. For a lot of coaches it is not worth the time to rebuild and their team is retired or never plays again.
The theory that box is bash heavy is just not true. Box has diversity at the lower TV range that falls in line with these four ranked teams.
Of course in ranked you can try to avoid the natural order of racial distribution of Blood Bowl at high TR/TV but then I again I suspect those are the coaches who lament they can never find a match at over 225TR in under an hour.
In the box you cannot avoid the natural order of things at high TV.
So of course if your are trully "picking" at high TV ranges it is then natural that your frustration index will start to spike as you cannot seem to find a non bash type game. And the time between matches increases to such a level that your enjoyment is impacted due to long down time between matches.
And in the Box if you grow frustrated that there are no Elf teams and non bash, well you are litterally bashing your head against the wall in the box because those non bash 2250+TV teams are few and far between. So the chances of actually facing them is slim to none.
The only part of the Box is bash heavy discussion I agree with is this. At low to mid TV there is diversity of races BUT there are a lot more coaches building up their bash team so it can seem if you get unlucky in the scheduler that you will face a lot more bash teams than compared to ranked. But some times perception = reality for a lot of people, when the reality is created by a false perception.
If any coach could make the argument that Blood Bowl is a bash heavy game...then Kenty is top dog. |
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Last edited by PainState on %b %07, %2011 - %23:%Feb; edited 1 time in total |
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maysrill
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
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| Posted:
Feb 07, 2011 - 18:44 |
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Yeah, I agree with PainState's base point about R being just as bashy as B.
The one thing I'd add that gamefinder may skew the view. Just because 12 players have elves up on GF doesn't mean they're getting games. They're still more likely to take the orc/chaos game rather than wait to find the perfect elfballers to match up with their pro elves. I imagine that most non-refused games are between teams of similar bash/ball philosophy (i.e. bashers vs. bashers, ballers vs. ballers). |
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Qaz
Joined: Apr 28, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 07, 2011 - 19:06 |
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| Catalyst32 wrote: | | Se... using that old Olinsky-ite technique of trying to destroy the messenger never succeeds to destroy the MESSAGE... and the message is what has importance. |
So what you are saying is: The "message" is. Go make some soft teams so that your undeads can bash them?
there is a saying: live as you preach. You sure fail here and your so called message looses a lot of validity when you fail to live up to your own messages standards.
and no I have no wish for what other people should play in the box.
In the old box I played mostly CDs and in the new box I have played 4 games with CDs 3 Games with Woodies 5 games with amazons and 10 games with necroes,
Now insted of being laughed at here isent it time for you to go out and play one of the soft teams that you so think the box needs? |
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"he who has relied least on fortune is established
the strongest"
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ignatzami
Joined: Aug 18, 2008
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| Posted:
Feb 07, 2011 - 19:49 |
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This confirms my suspicion, and a point I've tried to make to Catalyst on a number of occasions in #NWL, bash teams survive early in the box, with high AV they tend to suffer fewer casualties in the lower TVs. This makes them attractive for coaches.
However, once the softer races get skilled up a bit they can easily run circles around a team built to hit, and built to counter other hitters.
I'd be curious to see a skill distribution in Ranked, and FFB, v. Box. I'd hazard a guess you see much more Claw and MB in the box at the expense of Tackle. This over-reliance on hitting makes it even easier for fast agile teams to stay safe, play safe, and win games. |
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