neverborn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Feb 15, 2004 - 08:56 |
 
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hey, it seems these dont work together in the client, and i dont see why they can't
if you choose to shadow, and fail, it doesnt give you the option of using diving tackle, but if you choose not to shadow, then you can use diving tackle...
Nothing in either of the skill descriptions seems to suggest you cant elect to use diving tackle if the shadowing roll fails, because the player is leaving your tackle zone, and as such, you get to choose if you want to shadow, and you also get to choose if you want to use diving tackle. |
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quota
Joined: Nov 24, 2003
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Feb 15, 2004 - 10:10 |
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Doesn't throwing yourself to the ground kind of rule out the possibility of following the person dodging? I mean, If you chose to use diving tackle, you can't also run after the guy. If you chose to run after the guy, you've chosen not to throw yourself to the ground and hug his angles in an attempt to stop him.
I can see what you're getting at. You want to do shadowing until it fails, and then use diving tackle instead. I'm not sure when the dodge roll is made, but I think it's fine you have to chose which one to use. |
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the only good undead is a dead, uhm, undead... |
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jokklas
Joined: Jan 07, 2004
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Feb 15, 2004 - 10:50 |
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What neverborn points out is that the client handles the combo shadowing+diving tackle differently than the "normal" game. I would want to know one thing though. Which happens first? I was thinking of "shadowing+tackle" (not diving tackle) but does the client handle this properly? |
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SubSonic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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Feb 15, 2004 - 11:00 |
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Shadowing rolls are made after dodge rolls, so you cant really use diving tackle anymore as it affects the dodge rolls... |
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Covertfun
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 15, 2004 - 11:20 |
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| Irit wrote: | | You want to do shadowing until it fails, and then use diving tackle instead. I'm not sure when the dodge roll is made, but I think it's fine you have to chose which one to use. |
OTOH - There are a couple of skill combos where you don't have to choose which one to use:
Mighty Blow and Piling On
Pass and Safe Throw (do I reroll the accuracy, or do I guard against intercepts?)
and Block and Tackle (do I wish to take down this dodger on a PUSHBACK/POW, and risk getting smacked over on a SKULL/POW?) |
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quota
Joined: Nov 24, 2003
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Feb 15, 2004 - 11:41 |
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| SubSonic wrote: | | Shadowing rolls are made after dodge rolls, so you cant really use diving tackle anymore as it affects the dodge rolls... |
Normally you can chose to use Diving Tackle after the dodge roll, question is if you can wait until then to decide to use Shadowing, and if it fails, then use Diving Tackle.
| Covertfun wrote: | OTOH - There are a couple of skill combos where you don't have to choose which one to use:
Mighty Blow and Piling On
Pass and Safe Throw (do I reroll the accuracy, or do I guard against intercepts?)
and Block and Tackle (do I wish to take down this dodger on a PUSHBACK/POW, and risk getting smacked over on a SKULL/POW?) |
I know. All I said was that I am fine with having to chose. And frankly I'm not sure that's the wrong way to do it. |
_________________
the only good undead is a dead, uhm, undead... |
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SubSonic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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Feb 15, 2004 - 12:03 |
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| Irit wrote: | | SubSonic wrote: | | Shadowing rolls are made after dodge rolls, so you cant really use diving tackle anymore as it affects the dodge rolls... |
Normally you can chose to use Diving Tackle after the dodge roll, question is if you can wait until then to decide to use Shadowing, and if it fails, then use Diving Tackle.
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(General skill)Shadowing
The player may use this skill when an opposing player moves out of his tackle zone.
So as far as i understand that, the roll is made after the dodge roll has been completed, and the player is allready moving out from the tz. So you cant use diving tackle anymore... |
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neverborn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 15, 2004 - 12:26 |
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but it is used when he moves out
not after he has successfully dodged - because the person leaves the tz weather he does it on his feet or not, he falls where he dodged to, not where he dodged from
so
you should choose shadowing, then roll if you do or not,
then if you fail, you should be able to use diving tackle
then they roll the dodge
i dont see how this is negated by anything in the LRB |
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Grumbledook
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 15, 2004 - 12:47 |
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in the rulebook it is as follows:
you can choose to use diving tackle after the dodge roll has been made, if you then decide you want to use it to make the other guy fail the roll and cause a turnover (or at least a reroll) then you can, if you choose not to use it then you can make a shadowing roll instead. |
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Calamir
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 15, 2004 - 12:50 |
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| Covertfun wrote: | OTOH - There are a couple of skill combos where you don't have to choose which one to use:
Mighty Blow and Piling On
Pass and Safe Throw (do I reroll the accuracy, or do I guard against intercepts?)
and Block and Tackle (do I wish to take down this dodger on a PUSHBACK/POW, and risk getting smacked over on a SKULL/POW?) |
Wait, isn't that because, in these cases, both are used? (You get to choose whether to Pile On or not, of course, but otherwise...) |
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quota
Joined: Nov 24, 2003
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Feb 15, 2004 - 13:23 |
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Ok, one more edit 
I think SubSonic has it right.
The Diving Tackle comes first. It states that "...use this skill after an opposing player attempts to Dodge out of his tackle zone." Where as Shadowing says "...when an opposing player moves out of his tackle zone."
Attempting comes before doing 
Hence:
1) Opponent decides to dodge away from your player.
2) Opponent moves player and rolls dice for dodge.
3) You chose wether to use Diving Tackle.
4) If you don't use Diving Tackle, chose wether to use Shadowing.
Only thing remaining is wether you can shadow after a player that fails his dodge roll. |
_________________
the only good undead is a dead, uhm, undead... |
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neverborn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 15, 2004 - 13:39 |
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a player both attempts and suceeds at leaving yout tackle zone at the same time - whether they do it on their feet or by falling over is another matter
we know this because players fall over in another square, even if they fall over... |
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quota
Joined: Nov 24, 2003
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Feb 15, 2004 - 13:50 |
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I guess we disagree on that then. And as this thread clearly shows, there are alot of different oppinions. Someone (probably someone who brought it up ) should send GW an email and ask the question. I can't remember where I saw the adress you could write and ask these questions though, darnit. |
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the only good undead is a dead, uhm, undead... |
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DoubleSkulls
Joined: Oct 05, 2003
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Feb 16, 2004 - 00:04 |
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The LRB is quite clear - and the client handles Diving Tackle incorrectly
The sequence ought to be
roll to dodge
use DT or not
roll to shadow
But it is effectively
use DT or not
roll to dodge
roll to shadow if didn't dt.
You can shadow a failed dodge (unless they've got SF). |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
Eucalyptus Bowl |
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