Tath
Joined: Oct 01, 2003
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 Posted:
Oct 19, 2003 - 11:29 |
 
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| RIPNE1 wrote: | | Quote: |
i think the only real discussion then perhaps will come down to the reasons behind the different scoring systems ... ie will the issues of similar scores from a 3-1-0 in a full 7 round comp, be more impactful than the problems of real/percieved imbalances of a more complex system (7 or 8 point systems) ? ie is the only reason of using the more complex system to mitigate the eventualities of too many teams on equal footing ? or is there other important reasons ?
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I think the point of the 7 point system is, as mentioned before, to give and appropriately reward grades of success. you get more points if you beat your oponent soundly and less points for a more narrow win. also you still get points if you loose. there's nothing more frustrating than to have a narrow loss and get nothing for it! if you manage to only loose by a single touchdown and beat your opponent in casualty count you'll get 3 of the 7 available points. |
yeah, but the issue is not that, bt wheerh it advantages some teams over another to score more premiership points. Invariably if we assume that each team is balanced to win (which we have to) then the most balanced scoring system is one which focuses soley on that.
The assumption we are making with a 7/8 point system is that the ability for AG teams to win by 2 TD's is equal to the ability for ST teams to win cas counts ... |
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RIPNE1
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 19, 2003 - 12:54 |
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RIPNE1
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 19, 2003 - 13:04 |
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| Quote: |
A bashing side moulded to focus on casualties instead of winning will very likely cause 2+ injuries in a game.
Just focus skills towards PO and MB and watch the casualties climb. With each injury reducing the chances of the victim winning the next game, this creates a double blow to the victim.
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however a team that focuses on being bashy, putting skills into POmighty blow etc. will have a stunted growth! this is the major difference between league and open fumbbl play! if you do not develop the ball playing skills of your players you will score less TD make less passes and less interceptions your players will develop at a MUCH slower rate than the other players in the league... so yes you may get you MB,PO player but by the time you do the ag focused teams will have blodgers galore!
If you look at the open division you'll find that the teams that have the sole purpose of crippling other teams have played a lot more games than a ball handling team of similar strength. However since games are organised by team rating in the open league this creates an imbalance.
However, with a scheduled league, teams aren't paired off by team rating but instead by the number of games thwey have played. A team that focuses soley on high impact bashy skills will lag in team development. The imbalance that we see in the open system isn't there in league play.
Remember Blood bowl is designd for league play rather than large open groups. therefore the playtesting and game design is balanced for the way it is intended to be played. |
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Twahn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 19, 2003 - 14:43 |
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| vigil wrote: | Any chance of a posthumous mention in the Twahnlows?
Mina Harker.. *sniff* You served your team well. |
So far as I can see, Mina is still taking the field? Who knows which way the judges will view her 'death' when counting the votes...  |
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cataphract
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 20, 2003 - 00:31 |
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yeah shame about mina... you shoulda used your apoth... oh yeah that's right |
_________________
"the eunuch should not take pride in its chastity" |
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Tath
Joined: Oct 01, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 20, 2003 - 04:03 |
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i think you will find that the statistics page you've quoted shows more clearly than the fact that some teasm have more win percentage than others that the 7/8 point system will favor bashy teams quite a bit. even the teasm that win well (and arent bashy) have no better TD difference then pure bashy teams and in general lose the cas differnce by a huge margin in most cases.
yes wood elves have 47% compared to chaos of 35%
BUT
wood elves have 47% win compared with chaos dwarf of 47% yet chaos dwarf has a BETTER TD difference (yeah i know its only -0.26 vs -0.27) and a hugely better Cas difference (+0.5 vs -1.27).
i think u will find as you look at the stats that TD differnce in the end really is a lot less variable than the Cas difference. its becos simply the ability to cause cas's enahnces your ability to score TD's. it doesnt take many cas's to stop AG teams and make it easy for bashy teams to win by 2 TD's.
p.s. when will this league start ? we gonna wait til the end of the current SWL i asume ... ?
cheers |
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Twahn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 20, 2003 - 04:45 |
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| Tath wrote: | | p.s. when will this league start ? we gonna wait til the end of the current SWL i asume ... ? |
Yup. It's next season we're talking about.
That's my fear too. I don't think Bashy teams really need extra points over faster teams. At present we have a system that rewards you for scoring big TD victories and offers no reward for beating your opponent. Bashy teams rule the ladder and the elves lick their wounds at the bottom. Winning by two or more TDs is easily possible for a basher but winning the Cas count is nigh impossible for a pansy.
There'll be no reward for beating next season, whichever system we use. It's about scoring TDs in the end. How you do it, is your choice. |
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cataphract
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 20, 2003 - 07:56 |
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this is where the league would stand with the 7 point system. the numbers in parenthesis ar number of games played.
I havn't included the games against the legion exterminatus.
Gentlemen(7)28
Madboyz(6)25
Adepts(7)25
Carlton(6)25
Dragons(6)25
Zons(5)23.5
Anvils(5)21
Mammalians(4)16
Guard(6)15.5
Sinners(5) 13.5
Gully Gang(6)13
War Lizards(4)8.5
so if we do a bit of maths we can say that if all teams have played 7 games the ladder would look like this
Zons 32.9
Anvils 29.4
Madboyz 29.16
Carlton 29.16
Dragons 29.16
Gentlemen 28
Mammalians 28
Adepts 25
Guard 18.1
Sinners 16.2
Gully Gang 15.16
War Lizards 14.875
a nice spread with the top position held by an ag team... the bashy teams that dominate the higher part of the actual ladder are a bit down and the humans norse and wood elf are up... indeed under the eight point system each team would gain an additional point for every victory which would skew the data again.
| Quote: |
Winning by two or more TDs is easily possible for a basher but winning the Cas count is nigh impossible for a pansy.
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there have been only a few times a bash team has won by more than 2 TD in this tournament (and they've been against other bashy teams) but ag teams have won MANY causalty counts (check out the zons records). |
_________________
"the eunuch should not take pride in its chastity" |
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sharkan_42
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 07, 2004 - 14:30 |
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Gnomes are trash
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