FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Slex

Joined: Jan 14, 2004

Posted: Jan 21, 2011 - 11:33

The answer is probably no, but I can't resist asking - can a treeman while moving on pass block also use throw team mate skill? Very Happy

Lakrillo

Joined: Sep 12, 2007

Posted: Jan 21, 2011 - 11:48

@zakatan, no not wrestle as that also places you prone.

@Slex, No, TTM demands that he performs a Passing-action, Pass-block is not an Action, but a free move which happens out of the players own Action.

freak_in_a_frock

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Jan 21, 2011 - 11:58

I would suggest that passblock would work in the same style as kick return, except you have to finish in a pass interfering place.

I am no coder but i would assume the easiest solution is to have the highlight the elligible squares that the player is allowed to finish on, then have the pass block coach select one of those squares and the player moves automatically toward sthat square, making all the dodges etc needed. Since you are no longer allowed to stop halfway this works. Also this makes it easier to stop people trying to move in the wrong direction. The only negative is if a player changes his mind on the route during the move. Maybe each click on the elligable square would move the player one place towards it.

Lakrillo

Joined: Sep 12, 2007

Posted: Jan 21, 2011 - 12:10

freak_in_a_frock wrote:

I would suggest that passblock would work in the same style as kick return, except you have to finish in a pass interfering place.

I am no coder but i would assume the easiest solution is to have the highlight the elligible squares that the player is allowed to finish on, then have the pass block coach select one of those squares and the player moves automatically toward sthat square, making all the dodges etc needed. Since you are no longer allowed to stop halfway this works. Also this makes it easier to stop people trying to move in the wrong direction. The only negative is if a player changes his mind on the route during the move. Maybe each click on the elligable square would move the player one place towards it.

I discussed this with Christer the other day to modify the automove function to include this case, it is a little bit tricky as there might be different routes to the same square and how you would count different types of dodges and tentacles towards eachother, but i hope we will find a good way to implement it.
Purplechest will probably complain that it takes away coaching-skill to be able to trace your path, but i prefer that to giving people ways to break the rules.
As it seems a lot of coaches don't have the skills to read the rulebook, i think we should enforce the rules on them as much as possible,

f_alk

Joined: Sep 30, 2005

Posted: Jan 21, 2011 - 12:33

Maybe you should ask Deaf how he coded it in BOTOCS, it works nice there.

uuni

Joined: Mar 12, 2010

Posted: Jan 21, 2011 - 12:42

freak_in_a_frock wrote:

Since you are no longer allowed to stop halfway this works.

Well, actually you still have the option to stop at multiple endpoints.

rules p66 wrote:

A legal destination puts the player in a position to attempt an interception, an empty square that is the target of the pass, or with his tackle zone on the thrower or catcher. The player may not stop moving until he has reached a legal destination, has been held fast by Tentacles or has been Knocked Down.

There are multiple legal destinations, all squares that an interception is possible from. There could be an interest for an opportunistic play, so that "if I don't have to use my Dodge reroll before, I will run next to the thrower to give -1 for the pass roll, but if I have used my Dodge reroll, I will be satisafied with the Interception attempt."

Example:

Code:

T - Thrower
2 - secondary target square, interception possible, pass roll -1
1 - primary target square, interception possible
B - opposing player with TZ
A - Pass Blocking player
C - Catcher of the pass

.T..
.2..
..1B
...A
....
.C..

I would say that both 1 and 2 are legal destinations, and the player can stop to 1 or decide to try to dodge to 2. The player has to declare the whole route of (1,2) at the beginning of the Pass Block movement, but he can stop in either of the destinations.

freak_in_a_frock

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Jan 21, 2011 - 13:07

Hence my one click per move idea. Each time you click the player would move one square towards that point. You can then end his turn at any elligable square, or even change your mind to a different square during the move.

Rabe

Joined: Jun 06, 2009

Posted: Jan 21, 2011 - 13:30

Isn't it possible to allow the player only to move into fields that will still leave him the possibility to reach a legal destination? That, in combination with the removal of the "end movement" option for each square that is not a legal destination would do best, I guess...

I have pass block on dwarven longbeards and my intention besides disturbing the pass is to move them into better positions, even if it means the risk of armor break over a failed dodge (if he ends up prone he only has to stand up in my turn to be in a better position). If the path would be chosen automatically, this tactical option would be lost (which might be even closer to the rules?).

_________________
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Sinner

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Jan 21, 2011 - 13:35

1. coach selects square player shoud go to
2. server offers only squares that are on a valid path to target square - 1 step away
3. choose square to make move to
4 repeat 2-3 till target reached or [valid position (intercept or TZ on thrower/catcher) and [coach indicates he wants to stop or exhausted 3 mv]]
6 if mv left and not in valid position force coach to continue moving
exception
player fell down

_________________
Sinner
Darkie's Dreams - successfully cherrypicking any race, any coach, any rating, any number of DP since 20/09/2003 ... and still winning!

SubbySuccubus

Joined: Dec 25, 2010

Posted: Jan 21, 2011 - 14:15

Reisender wrote:

on the other hand, i am 100% sure that i would not check a tree for passblock...

+1 %100 agree here

_________________
Blood guts chainsaws and knives, elfs and flings run for their lives, bh, SI, RIP, LOS is the place for graves times three, journeyman they live to die, the LOS is home even ST6 on a tree is useless all alone

uuni

Joined: Mar 12, 2010

Posted: Jan 21, 2011 - 16:54

freak_in_a_frock wrote:

... even change your mind to a different square during the move.

But this is not allowed in the rules. You have to declare the entire path at the beginning of the Pass Block movement, before you start to commence its steps. It is only allowed to interrupt this sequence in a legal destination.

You cannot change your path. You could want to do so, if for instance the opponent uses Shadowing or Diving Tackle in a particular way, but it is not allowed per rules.

Rabe

Joined: Jun 06, 2009

Posted: Jan 21, 2011 - 17:37

uuni wrote:

freak_in_a_frock wrote:

... even change your mind to a different square during the move.

But this is not allowed in the rules. You have to declare the entire path at the beginning of the Pass Block movement, before you start to commence its steps. It is only allowed to interrupt this sequence in a legal destination.

You cannot change your path. You could want to do so, if for instance the opponent uses Shadowing or Diving Tackle in a particular way, but it is not allowed per rules.

I don't find this in the rules. I think the following is pretty clear: "A player may not make the move unless able to reach a legal destination and may not follow a route that would not allow them to reach a legal destination. [...] The player may not stop moving until he has reached a legal destination, has been held fast by Tentacles or has been Knocked Down."
Nothing about you being forced to declare the path before actually moving. Is it possible it's a more general rule (that counts for every move action) or from an older ruleset?

Reisender

Joined: Sep 29, 2007

Posted: Jan 21, 2011 - 20:58

Slex wrote:

The answer is probably no, but I can't resist asking - can a treeman while moving on pass block also use throw team mate skill? Very Happy

no. but you will be happy to know that he can use leap.

uuni

Joined: Mar 12, 2010

Posted: Jan 21, 2011 - 23:43

Rabe wrote:

Nothing about you being forced to declare the path before actually moving. Is it possible it's a more general rule (that counts for every move action) or from an older ruleset?

Ah, you are correct Rabe, and so was freak_in_a_frock. I offer my sincere apologies, I was wrong about this. I was remembering the LRB5+ex, which specified there being a declaration of the path - it has indeed been changed to CRP, as I found out when rechecking the matter.

Freak_in_a_frock was right in:

freak_in_a_frock wrote:

Hence my one click per move idea. Each time you click the player would move one square towards that point. You can then end his turn at any elligable square, or even change your mind to a different square during the move.

A good idea.

Sinner's suggestion also seems to be quite on target.

Nelphine

Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Posted: Jul 27, 2011 - 07:45

I would suggest dropping step 1 of Sinner's suggestion, and instead only offering squares that are close enough to a valid square to reach - this allows the coach the most freedom in choosing where to go:

1: Client determines which pass blocker have any valid pass block moves (I have a logarithm for this if needed, although mine is based on the interception code, which I don't actually know.)
2: Client asks coach to select a valid pass blocker to move; pass blocker coach also has option of ending his pass blocking turn
3: If a pass blocker is chosen, client highlights squares adjacent to pass blocker that are within 2 of a valid end position
4: pass blocker coach chooses a highlighted square (or can end move if initial square is a valid destination, or if he realizes he did not actually want to active pass block; if coach ends the move here, this pass blocker could be re-selected, as per usual turn player choice rules)
5: pass blocker moves to chosen square; if he is held by tentacles or knocked prone, pass block move ends; if he is knocked prone and it is the pass blockers turn (probably due to a dump off) then the pass block turn ends, the pass is completed, the block on the dump-off-er is completed (I think?) and the pass blockers regular turn is ended; if the pass blocker is held by tentacles, or is knocked prone when it is not his turn, then the pass blockers move ends, and the pass blocker coach is prompted to select another valid pass blocker or end his pass blocking turn
6: if move is successful, client highlights squares adjacent to the pass blocker that are within 1 of a valid pass block destination
7: pass blocker coach chooses a highlighted square (or can end move if the pass blockers current square is a valid pass block destination; note he cannot end move if the current square is not a valid destination, similar to coaches not being allowed to not push an opponent on a push result of a block)
8: repeat step 5
9: if move is successful, client highlights squares adjacent to the pass blocker that are a valid pass block destination
10: repeat step 7
11: repeat step 5
12: if move is successful, pass blockers move ends and the pass blocking coach is prompted to choose another valid pass blocker, or to end his pass blocking turn

If a pass blockers pass block move ends at any step other than 4, that pass blocker will be greyed out when the client asks the pass blocking coach to choose a pass blocker, as will all players who are not pass blockers, or who are pass blockers that do not have valid pass block destination squares within 3 squares.