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charlie1331



Joined: Sep 16, 2012

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2018 - 20:59 Reply with quote Back to top

lawofthewest wrote:
Catalyst32 wrote:

The stand firm not only prevents the Revenge surf... it also helps in positioning potentially.


Well I disagree - there is a skill called Juggernaut...


Wait, wat?!

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Shushnik



Joined: Feb 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2018 - 21:45 Reply with quote Back to top

I like stand firm. But I can see using a blackle mb frenzy saurus as a free Blitzer instead of a positioning piece. Just depends on how you play, really.
Keothi



Joined: Jul 08, 2013

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2018 - 01:11 Reply with quote Back to top

My 2 cents worth; Personally, I would go Block, Frenzy, Tackle, Juggs, Stand Firm - MB if they get there, but not so early in the development. Why? Once he has Block you can hit twice, TWICE! There is early team value in that positioning of your opponent's side, a real threat to the sideline, he's ST4,M6,Block,Frenzy... Just getting a second hit and chance to knock down players is worth taking Frenzy early on IMO. Look at Werewolves who start with Frenzy and all you want to do is get them Block, then Dodge and MB on a double. Tackle is obvious, increase his capability of knocking players over plus forcing RR burns on elf sides. Juggs so you negate the teams with Stand Firm; He becomes a sideline threat again when Stand Firm at the higher team values negates once of his key value adds to the team - sideline ownership.

The team should be getting enough Block, Guard, MB and Break Tackle elsewhere on Saurii to not need it on this guy. He's a sweeper, not a front line troop, unless someone is stupid enough to setup a wide line of scrimmage and let you surf a player off the pitch on turn 1 through chain-pushing and frenzy.
Keothi



Joined: Jul 08, 2013

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2018 - 01:13 Reply with quote Back to top

I have a Blackle, Frenzy, Dauntless Orc Blitzer who I would dearly love to give Juggs to; but he's MA8 and I like that mawr =]
Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2018 - 01:47 Reply with quote Back to top

I would have stand firm on the frenzy guy. He is awesome not just for sideline plays but driving straight into the middle of a cage and messing it up. Creates lots of opportunities for creative chainpushes if you are that way inclined.

Also a single frenzy player can make sideline defence challenging for your opponents and limits their ability to drive down sidelines safely n offence.

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juck101



Joined: Nov 16, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2018 - 15:18 Reply with quote Back to top

yeah freny is good with tons of st4. You get loads of 2ds and he might not need any assits, so why not take it.

You can treaten a sideline and thats amazing with some ma8 to pressure the ball, or just run an offense forward through. As said its probably best just for general smashing a couple of squares forward. Not bad vs elves if you have no tackle. Not bad for one-turn attempts either but again you wont struggle with ma8 often.

Loads of other lizards go block guard mb bt and then leave one guy with frenzy and maybe a some sf tackle as you wish. Therefore for me hes, block frenzy - later mb guard
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2018 - 19:32 Reply with quote Back to top

I prefer the idea of getting Break Tackle before taking Frenzy. Here's why, but please convince me otherwise:

If you frenzy out of position, too deep into the enemy area, maybe you rolled all pushes...it could require most of your team to help recover that player, by making a long sequence of blocks to free him or going in for assists etc
So it could cost you a turn or two of work, that could have been pressuring the ball or something instead.

If your overly-keen frenzy guy can just dodge himself free with break tackle, he puts less of a drag on the rest of your team and its less damage to your positioning

Another reason: this player is likely to be your main blitzer, he will gain SPP fastest, he will get to 3-4th skills before other saurus on the team
So he will likely be the first one with MB+tackle. Then, if some elf escapes from a scrum with the ball, your Frenzy/tackle guy is the one you want to try and sack him with

Break tackle also lets you just opt out of frenzy-baiting situations, where you are facing something dangerous, or could get countersurfed if you take that block, etc.
It mitigates frenzy's forced follow-up.
bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2018 - 19:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Tackle is not bad with frenzy, but not a must. I would take Block, Mb, then Frenzy, then up to team need. You can liberally choose between Break Tackle, Guard, Juggernaut, Tackle, Stand Firm or even Pro.

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Dalfort



Joined: Jun 23, 2008

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2018 - 22:52 Reply with quote Back to top

lawofthewest wrote:
Catalyst32 wrote:

The stand firm not only prevents the Revenge surf... it also helps in positioning potentially.


Well I disagree - there is a skill called Juggernaut...


I would agree with you, there is a skill called Juggernaut; but if the opponent if Blitzing your Frenzy/Stand Firm guy they are not Blitzing your Ball Carrier and thus you are double bluffing their Frenzy bait play...

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garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Feb 23, 2018 - 00:34 Reply with quote Back to top

I think if any of your Saurii get move 7 and block then is the time to give them frenzy. Mighty Blow or Break Tackle are not needed for a Frenzy player. But nice to have. The extra movement could be much more important. Guard is not needed for him at all.

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delusional



Joined: Jan 18, 2013

Post   Posted: Feb 23, 2018 - 03:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Work out why the guy has Frenzy,
Break tackle is great, as it suddenly gives these AG1 guys a good chance at dodging.
Block is good because you suddenely get a 2d6+block as opposed to 2d6 alone (quite a bit more successful). Yet what about wressle?

If you have a sacker, I would go:
Break tackle, Frenzy, wressle/jugs. Why? that player is getting away, ready to blitz a ball carrier. Naturally strip ball or tackle add to the chances of this guy's success, but Break tackle is the skill that allows him to escape. Ofcourse Block is usually better then Wressle, but on sackers go Wressle.

If trapper, Frenzy is a luxury skill you probably do not want.

But Frenzy can give an extra chance at a POW. I pick it as first skill on my 5th or 6th Saurus when the first 3 have block and one guy has wressle + Break tackle. It's probably more effective then mighty blow in raising SPP.
delusional



Joined: Jan 18, 2013

Post   Posted: Feb 23, 2018 - 03:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Another point not being mentioned. If you have 2x Sauri with Frenzy you will suddenly find the WE/DE/halfling/whatever opposition far less willing to go near the edge of the field.

with 4-5 other big blockers in the center you have great positioning by intimidation.
gpope



Joined: Jun 04, 2010

Post   Posted: Feb 23, 2018 - 06:08 Reply with quote Back to top

garyt1 wrote:
I think if any of your Saurii get move 7 and block then is the time to give them frenzy. Mighty Blow or Break Tackle are not needed for a Frenzy player. But nice to have. The extra movement could be much more important. Guard is not needed for him at all.


These are my thoughts as well. Tackle is also a bit superfluous, since you get twice as many tries to fish for pows. Block/+MA is a great entry to Frenzy, but in a pinch I'd go straight into Block/Frenzy if I had 3-4 developed saurii already.
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