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Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Nov 24, 2020 - 17:37 Reply with quote Back to top

If your team is without any skills you tend not to earn a lot of SPPs, and it sounds really weird to apo a rookie goat just because you were banking 3 random MVPs and the odd TD on them waiting to spend it all in one go

Just play your teams as you would normally and see what comes of it. I don't think you'll get anywhere definitive with just 1 season, so get your skills, win some games, see where it goes.
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 24, 2020 - 18:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Lyracian wrote:
I do not see them ever dropping teams. The half page they would need for a roster is not much.


Perhaps not dropped but perhaps re-crafted and/or renamed... Wink

I certainly could see the "Teams of Legend" being completely redone at some point.
Wolbum



Joined: Jul 14, 2010

Post   Posted: Nov 24, 2020 - 18:14 Reply with quote Back to top

Java wrote:
Not to toot my own horn but it's perfectly possible to have an above 50% winrate with rookie chaos in the first 10 games or so. I've got a box team that's done 8 games so far and was 4-1-0 in the first 5 games (now it's on 4-1-3 Rolling Eyes )

I get it, they no longer have a sweet spot or an achievable ideal development level, I'd say that makes coaching chaos more interesting. Probably harder, too.



It was a fairly long time ago, during the CLAWPOMB meta, but I can echo that sentiment. Rookie Chaos is difficult, for sure, but they aren't outright crap like many people say. Mind due, I do utilize the 3 Warrior, 1 Minotaur, 2 RR build, which helps a lot in terms of pressure and hitting power, but they are definitely OK at worst, with a bit of punch. It's just their lack of safety skills which brings them down.

That said, I've still had decent experiences overall with rookie/low TV Chaos, including in the NAFC I mentioned in my last post. Just now they can't auto run with claw/MB like they used to, or at least with the same ease.

Still, at this point I just want to get my hands on the BB2020 Ruleset, either here or in BB3, to get an idea what they will be like in practice rather than purely theorycrafting.
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 24, 2020 - 20:51 Reply with quote Back to top

Wolbum wrote:
It was a fairly long time ago, during the CLAWPOMB meta, but I can echo that sentiment. Rookie Chaos is difficult, for sure, but they aren't outright crap like many people say. Mind due, I do utilize the 3 Warrior, 1 Minotaur, 2 RR build, which helps a lot in terms of pressure and hitting power, but they are definitely OK at worst, with a bit of punch. It's just their lack of safety skills which brings them down.

That said, I've still had decent experiences overall with rookie/low TV Chaos, including in the NAFC I mentioned in my last post. Just now they can't auto run with claw/MB like they used to, or at least with the same ease.

Still, at this point I just want to get my hands on the BB2020 Ruleset, either here or in BB3, to get an idea what they will be like in practice rather than purely theorycrafting.


The key with Chaos, especially early on, is to learn to accept bad dice and plan for it. With Chaos you really need to do things in the right order so you really need to understand what to prioritise. This is why it is Tier 2.

Just accept that Skull & Both Down on the first Block and move on... don't waste the Re-Rolls unless it is really necessary... you can most of the time recover from a bad turn or two.
Wolbum



Joined: Jul 14, 2010

Post   Posted: Nov 24, 2020 - 23:12 Reply with quote Back to top

CAB wrote:
Wolbum wrote:
It was a fairly long time ago, during the CLAWPOMB meta, but I can echo that sentiment. Rookie Chaos is difficult, for sure, but they aren't outright crap like many people say. Mind due, I do utilize the 3 Warrior, 1 Minotaur, 2 RR build, which helps a lot in terms of pressure and hitting power, but they are definitely OK at worst, with a bit of punch. It's just their lack of safety skills which brings them down.

That said, I've still had decent experiences overall with rookie/low TV Chaos, including in the NAFC I mentioned in my last post. Just now they can't auto run with claw/MB like they used to, or at least with the same ease.

Still, at this point I just want to get my hands on the BB2020 Ruleset, either here or in BB3, to get an idea what they will be like in practice rather than purely theorycrafting.


The key with Chaos, especially early on, is to learn to accept bad dice and plan for it. With Chaos you really need to do things in the right order so you really need to understand what to prioritise. This is why it is Tier 2.

Just accept that Skull & Both Down on the first Block and move on... don't waste the Re-Rolls unless it is really necessary... you can most of the time recover from a bad turn or two.


Oh yeah for sure. Taking the hits while you can, and I suppose that's why I like the minotaur for his 3d blitzes, reduces the margin of error somewhat. Still, I made a quick box team to refresh myself of rookie Chaos and even to this day it still surprises me at times how potent having their Strength 4 everywhere can help a lot in a scrum.
garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 25, 2020 - 01:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Not sure that mino reduces the margin for error considering wild animal and loner. Can be a liability. Maybe different with new rules.

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Wolbum



Joined: Jul 14, 2010

Post   Posted: Nov 25, 2020 - 02:25 Reply with quote Back to top

It's the three dice blocks really. Of course, it does add an extra element of risk with loner and wild animal, but the 3d Blitzes against Str3 can be huge. Where with the standard run of the mill Chaos roster, it's exclusively 11.1% turn TO risk blocks. The Minotaur changes that to 3.7%.
Muff2n



Joined: May 20, 2017

Post   Posted: Nov 25, 2020 - 10:30 Reply with quote Back to top

Lower than that actually. It's 3.7% if you pass wild animal Wink
Wolbum



Joined: Jul 14, 2010

Post   Posted: Nov 25, 2020 - 14:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Muff2n wrote:
Lower than that actually. It's 3.7% if you pass wild animal Wink


WA doesn't cause a TO Razz
AzraelEVA



Joined: Nov 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2020 - 19:25 Reply with quote Back to top

There is no WA on Minotaur
Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2020 - 19:32 Reply with quote Back to top

all those people slinging mud at smallman all those years. Who knew, he was simply ahead of his time.

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Wolbum



Joined: Jul 14, 2010

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2020 - 20:03 Reply with quote Back to top

AzraelEVA wrote:
There is no WA on Minotaur


That is true, however functionally it is identical.

Arktoris wrote:
all those people slinging mud at smallman all those years. Who knew, he was simply ahead of his time.


I don't think it will be quite as sustainable long term as the box teams who had no redraft penalty. We'll have to see.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 27, 2020 - 19:35 Reply with quote Back to top

Chaos will be fine. Keep tv low. Induce borak and bribes. Dp+2 every turn Twisted Evil

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Wolbum



Joined: Jul 14, 2010

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2020 - 07:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
Chaos will be fine. Keep tv low. Induce borak and bribes. Dp+2 every turn Twisted Evil


Sounds fun! Could work with an all goat lineup.

That said, my only other concern for Chaos is the winnings. Barring two touchdowns (10k), full fan factor roll(40k), or an opponent invested in dedicated fans, it is now not possible for chaos chosen to get the apothecary game 2. With death and stat injuries being reduced, I think this will help slightly but it will make recouperating losses a challenge.
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2020 - 11:17 Reply with quote Back to top

Wolbum wrote:
That said, my only other concern for Chaos is the winnings. Barring two touchdowns (10k), full fan factor roll(40k), or an opponent invested in dedicated fans, it is now not possible for chaos chosen to get the apothecary game 2. With death and stat injuries being reduced, I think this will help slightly but it will make recouperating losses a challenge.


I think that may be a little severe. If both teams only have DF 1 you need 5+ on the 2d3 which is 40% of matches. I have not looked at all the team changes but most of them seem to have 10-30k left after buying players. As such I would expect the majority of teams to have a DF of 2-4 for there first match. If your opponent has a DF of 2 then 67% of the time you get a total gate of 7+ which rounds to 40k base + Touchdowns.

The next point is how often will you be playing a 1 mill team? After redraft you should be 1350 TV for every season even if you are buying 9-10 new players your still better off than with a completely new team.

What happens to Dedicated Fans during redraft does not seem to be very clear. I assume it caries over but it may reset to 1.

While it is possible I think you will be unlucky to not be able to buy an Apo after the first game of the first season with Chaos.

Garion wrote:
Chaos will be fine. Keep tv low. Induce borak and bribes. Dp+2 every turn Twisted Evil

I am not sure if that was intended as a serious suggestion? Borak is 260k and bribes are even more. Given everyone will be redrafting to a lower TV I am not sure trying to keep a Chaos team even lower is viable.
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