19 coaches online • Server time: 07:10
Index Search Usergroups Profile
Log in
Recent Forum Topics goto Post Export match stepsgoto Post What will we do with...goto Post Would you like to sp...
SearchSearch 
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2020 - 17:44 Reply with quote Back to top

Many of these players might not even last long enough to get the 2nd skill. Especially with re-drafting & agent's fees. By taking the possibly useless/situational random skill, you are pushing a bread & butter skill further into the future. Maybe into impossibility.

Make your players really useful ASAP. Block gets used multiple times in a half. It even works on the opponent's turn. It keeps players on their feet. It keeps them alive.

Why give this up for 10k of inducements?

_________________
Image
[SL] Old World Rumbble - Brand new teams only - ALWAYS recruiting
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2020 - 17:53 Reply with quote Back to top

However, CAB does have a point: A random MVP gives enough spp for a random primary. It does NOT give enough for a chosen primary. Even a random MVP + completion does NOT give enough for a chosen primary. So there are absolutely a lot of players that arguably will never get a chosen primary, even if they get a random MVP.

Those players, is it worth taking the random primary? I personally don't think so - I think for example 10k inducements is worth more than dauntless on my human lino - but, I can certainly see where many others may disagree.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2020 - 17:56 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
Many of these players might not even last long enough to get the 2nd skill. Especially with re-drafting & agent's fees. By taking the possibly useless/situational random skill, you are pushing a bread & butter skill further into the future. Maybe into impossibility.

Make your players really useful ASAP. Block gets used multiple times in a half. It even works on the opponent's turn. It keeps players on their feet. It keeps them alive.

Exactly. For example, let's think about a Witch Elf: who is going to risk to take a random 1st skill on her?
Frenzy and no Block/Wrestle is a bad combo. Limits the usage and the reliability of this important and expensive player.

As I said, taking a random skill would have been nice IF you could pick a core, good skill and a random secondary/situational skill for free at each level up (or starting from the 2nd level up, otherwise the development could be too fast).
I would have split the skills into core and situational (or primary and secondary, for example, Block would be a General core/primary while Fend would be a General situational/secondary you could get for free randomly). Core skills would be picked, while secondary skills would be always randomized.
Players would be different (adding some variety to that 15-games run per Season) without sacrificing their efficiency/role.

I still wonder why in BB2020 players have 6 skill-slots if it's unlikely they will get 6 skills before being fired.
Ok you can make an all random skills Legend, but... is that really a Legend, or a Swiss Army knife without a knife?
Waagh



Joined: Apr 13, 2019

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2020 - 18:09 Reply with quote Back to top

Regardless of what "I would have done" or "it should have been like this" It is the way that it is. I can see three places to take a random skill.
1. For fun. Roll the dice see what happens! Enjoy your dauntless, pro, dirty player lineman. Probably best to wait till you have your core skills first. With three randoms you give away a weather mage. Or it could be the difference between giving up a bribe or bias reffs...
2. It's the end of the season you just finished your 15th game playoffs what have you and your lineman unexpectedly has a horde of ssp to spend. Roll it up see what happens if he just ends up incredible cool! Redraft him.
3. You have already saved enough cash that you're gonna make the draft cap no problem with enough cash left over to replace a player. A player has 4 ssp from an MVP and has been sitting there for a while. Go ahead roll it up! WHEN that chorf rolls arm bar fire him and get a new one.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2020 - 18:15 Reply with quote Back to top

About option 3: or you could just keep that 4 SPPs Chorf and pick Guard after game 1 of the new Season.
That way you don't waste the 4 SPPs if a useless random skill is rolled.
Zlefin



Joined: Apr 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2020 - 18:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Some of this stems from the longstanding fact that some skills are simply waaaaay better than others. While that disparity does make things like skill group access important which helps differentiate team designs, it also discourages player diversity, as whenever faced with a choice, getting the awesome skills just makes so much of a difference.

Of course now, it's going to cause a problem in that the minmax solution, at least for more survivable players, is to have ones that all 'randomed' block and such.
WhatBall



Joined: Aug 21, 2008

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2020 - 19:38 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
Many of these players might not even last long enough to get the 2nd skill. Especially with re-drafting & agent's fees. By taking the possibly useless/situational random skill, you are pushing a bread & butter skill further into the future. Maybe into impossibility.

Make your players really useful ASAP. Block gets used multiple times in a half. It even works on the opponent's turn. It keeps players on their feet. It keeps them alive.

Why give this up for 10k of inducements?

Exactly.
The game is going to be a lot more vanilla now.

This rule set missed a big chance to change up the skill costs so less useful skills were cheaper. Maybe that is a mixed blessing though, with 80K +ST we might have had 50K Block.

_________________
Image
neubau



Joined: Nov 12, 2016

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2020 - 22:03 Reply with quote Back to top

WhatBall wrote:
Maybe that is a mixed blessing though, with 80K +ST we might have had 50K Block.


with dwarfs getting it for free Wink

_________________
Image
Image
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2020 - 22:24 Reply with quote Back to top

I wanna run a linerat-only all-Skaven league where you can only buy random mutations and characteristic rolls (which can usually be turned into skills, yes). That will be fun.

_________________
Focus not on things you can't control, like bad dice. Focus instead on things under your power, like how far you flip the table.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2020 - 22:28 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
About option 3: or you could just keep that 4 SPPs Chorf and pick Guard after game 1 of the new Season.
That way you don't waste the 4 SPPs if a useless random skill is rolled.
Isn't there a per-season penalty for taking players back? If so, taking a player with 4 SPP is almost as dumb as taking a player with a bad skill (at least if you could have taken something else you'd want), but if he can spend three of those and get Guard, Mighty Blow, Stand Firm, or even Grab, for only 10k, suddenly he's precious.

_________________
Focus not on things you can't control, like bad dice. Focus instead on things under your power, like how far you flip the table.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2020 - 22:38 Reply with quote Back to top

It's 20k extra penalty per season played + skills, so yes, it would be dumb, you are right.
After all, it's not how many seasons a player has played what matters, but the skills he has acquired.
Really stupid penalty season rule.
Waagh



Joined: Apr 13, 2019

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2020 - 22:53 Reply with quote Back to top

The negativity toward the new rules absolutely blows my mind... "Players demanding more money based on how long they have been playing and how good they are!? That's crazy talk!" "A salary cap!? What american football league has a salary cap! Dumb!" "You mean to tell me that players can't play 300 games!? You've ruins blood bowl in real life tons of players have played that many games!" It drives me straight up the wall.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2020 - 23:01 Reply with quote Back to top

If a player has not acquired a skill, it doesn't matter how many games he has played, his price should not change.
The true value of a player is based on the skills he has, he could have played 1 game or 1000 games, it makes no difference.
This is not a real life American Football simulator and comparing real life American Football to BB makes no sense. Player demanding more money should be actually be worth more in performance.
The new Redraft rules make LRB4 Ageing look smarter.


Last edited by MattDakka on Dec 03, 2020 - 23:05; edited 1 time in total
Waagh



Joined: Apr 13, 2019

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2020 - 23:04 Reply with quote Back to top

It is an American football role playing game. If they have played one season and are a shit player they don't get hired back if they play three seasons and become big-time they move on to play for whoever will pay them.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2020 - 23:08 Reply with quote Back to top

Most players will just be cycled. Even a player with 1 season and 1 skill is going to be fired.
I'm not going to pay a Chorf Blocker with Guard 110k after 1 season.
There is no incentive to become big, unlike real life Football.
They made Rinse and repeat Bowl.
Display posts from previous:     
 Jump to:   
All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic