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Bellenrode



Joined: May 02, 2021

Post   Posted: May 15, 2021 - 13:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Thing is, these skills have a lot of utility.

Block is good when rolling Both Down on offense and defense. It turns a turnover into a success (if enemy doesn't have Block or Wrestle) or it prevents a turnover (if enemy has Block or Wrestle).

Dodge is good for keeping you on your feet and it helps you make that dodge if you happen to roll a 1.

Pro helps you re-roll an undesirable result (such as Animal Savagery. Or anything else).

All of them save your re-rolls. And you want to save re-rolls, because it leaves you with more options later on. Especially now, when you can use re-rolls without "one team re-roll per turn" rule.

Stat increases, while nice, don't offer that kind of benefit.

Don't get me wrong, having ST5/AG5/PA2 is great and all, but you have to "save SPP" until that happens. Meaning it does nothing for you in the meantime (as opposed to picking skills such as Block, Dodge and Pro one after another). And even then, the stats alone will still require a re-roll. In an environment where EVERYTHING requires a re-roll. And in case of Vampires, doubly so.

It would help if the increments for picking secondary skills and randomized stats were less severe. And if the stats increase wouldn't have a fixed TV (having ST5 is going to cost you a lot more in TV than picking Block AND Dodge, for example).

Technically keeping your TV low could have some benefits (and it's easier to re-draft such a player), but I am not sure if the opportunity cost would be worth it. I mean, how many games will you win, how many touchdowns will you score with "naked" Vampires over Vampires who keep getting Dodge, Block and Pro? Evenmoreso if you employ this kind of leveling strategy en masse?
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: May 15, 2021 - 15:19 Reply with quote Back to top

I like the idea of parking 3 Skill Vampires and then carrying them over into the next season with a pile of SPP to spend.

Taking an imaginary team what might it look like after half a dozen seasons? We get a nice core at 1200 TV. We can carry over three decent Vampires and hire a bunch of new Thralls and a rookie Vampire.

280 7 Thralls
110 1 Vampire Rookie
140 TRR x2

330 Three Skilled Vamps
200 Total 10 skills
140 Total 7 Season (3,2,2)
TOTAL = 1200k

That leaves us an extra 100k, 150k on FUMBLE, for other skills, an extra TRR if needed or even carry a Vamp into a fourth season.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: May 15, 2021 - 15:50 Reply with quote Back to top

So, for a roster which could have up to 6 Vampires the best scenario is playing with 3 so-so skilled Vampires and 1 Rookie Vampire?
Playing Vampires with BB2020 rules really looks appealing!
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: May 15, 2021 - 16:35 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
So, for a roster which could have up to 6 Vampires the best scenario is playing with 3 so-so skilled Vampires and 1 Rookie Vampire?
Playing Vampires with BB2020 rules really looks appealing!

I think that is sarcasm?

At 1350 you could squeeze in a fourth skilled Vamp but that is the best I could see for an ongoing team.

Will need some big changes to the roster to make me want to play them in 2020 League.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: May 15, 2021 - 16:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, that post was sarcastic.

I loved to watch this Vampire team:
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=751375
but sadly BB2020 rules will trim it.
(this is not sarcastic).
In my opinion the fun of playing Vampires is developing some very good ones, and being able to play at least 5 of them (not on starting roster, I mean, over time).
It should be a "few hero players" roster in my opinion rewarding long-term development (because early it's hard to play and not super good), not a rinse&repeat roster with 3-4 not very special Vampires.
I wonder whether giving Pro as default skill to new Vampires roster (increasing their cost to 120k) would have been too good.
Since they are not going to be played for a lot of games they should have had at least a starting skill, and Pro could have been a good idea.
Not overpowered, but a bit better and more fun to play.
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: May 15, 2021 - 18:17 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:

I loved to watch this Vampire team:
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=751375
but sadly BB2020 rules will trim it.

They are not going to enjoy shaving a million gold off of team value to play under the new rules.

MattDakka wrote:

I wonder whether giving Pro as default skill to new Vampires roster (increasing their cost to 120k) would have been too good. Not overpowered, but a bit better and more fun to play.

I am expecting something more like the Ogres or Halfing where we get the 6 Vampires split into 2 Vampire Blcokers, 2 Vampire Runners, or similar. Do not think we will see Pro but some sort of skill yes.
gamelsetlmatch



Joined: Mar 05, 2013

Post   Posted: May 16, 2021 - 00:41 Reply with quote Back to top

Maybe the real question is whether more team rerolls vs. skills that have built in rerolls, is better for the team?

Realistically.. you don't actually block that many times per turn, you don't get blocked that many times a turn, you don't pass and/or hand off that many times a game, etc..
Having block and needing tackle are pretty basic things you need in your team design ..how much of each depends on your coaching ability
Like, everyone else is going to be scrambling to put together a squad that can function at 1350'ish when redraft happens
Vampires carry more team rerolls than most teams normally do, even though they're 70K a pop so they might already be ahead of the curve absorbing that TV sink

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cromag



Joined: Jan 21, 2021

Post   Posted: May 17, 2021 - 00:48 Reply with quote Back to top

I have been playing vampires in BB2020 now 15~ games under my belt, while I stand by a lot of what I've said, I've had 2 Vampire deaths and 6 thrall deaths in that time. I think running 3-4 vamps for league play is better, I started with 5 Vamps, 7 Thralls 2rr I've never not had journeymen.

They are definitely better than what they used to be but the cost of replacing your players constantly has been rather taxing. I believe if it was more your local meta to have a lot of elf or human teams it would be better with fewer deaths. My league has Chaos, Nurgle, Dark Elves, Orcs, Necromantic, Shambling undead, Underworld denizens, Dwarfs, Skaven, Imperial nobility, and Lizardmen. I've had a lot of games where I've been under 5 players on the field or I've been left with the 4 vampires on my roster and nothing else 3 turns into the second half.

It has been a pretty rough time, I think I'll play goblins next time at least that way I deserve the beating i'm getting.

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