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Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2021 - 13:38 Reply with quote Back to top

In current [C] div there is BB2020 but no Seasons yet, so we don't need to worry about trying to grow fast or gold management.
We're still matching by TV, so for skillups the TV cost is more important than the SPP cost

Once Seasons come in, I doubt people will take +stats much or at all. But currently, should we?


+ST and possibly +AG are too expensive, and I doubt I'd want +PA

+AV for 10k seems a bargain to me. And you can select it on any D16 roll apart from 14 or 15
And Claw is now much less of a factor so Armour is better than it was

How about on a Wardancer after a couple of Skills?
+MA for 20k is also interesting, for example on a Wood Elf Catcher it's the same team value cost as choosing Sidestep as primary


So the question is, in what circumstances would you plan to take +Stats in current [C] division?
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2021 - 13:52 Reply with quote Back to top

an av10+, ma9 wardancer is probably achievable and also desirable

dedicated carriers, like dwarf runners, or most catchers, can do well with most stats too

not sure about statting up anyone else, feels like a wasted gamble on a run of the mill guard/mb whatever piece
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2021 - 14:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Sp00keh wrote:

+ST and possibly +AG are too expensive, and I doubt I'd want +PA

+AG is still only 40k. Having an AG 1+ Elf or even a 2+ Dwarf Runner/ Human Catcher will still be useful.

Dwarf Runner is actually my prime pick for Stats. I might even skip Block as first skill and take it as second skill. 6 Touchdowns is a stat. That is either +MA or +AG.

Then take block as second skill and save 24 SPP for a second stat or Dodge if you rolled AG both times. MA 8 Dwarf makes OTT much better or in fact any score where your advance has been stalled.

Sp00keh wrote:
and I doubt I'd want +PA

I would actually want +PA rather than Accurate/Cannoneer. Saving up to get an Elf or Skaven Thrower to PA 1+ AFTER they have core skills seems reasonable. This is of course assuming that an Accurate Pass with PA 1+ trumps Wildly Inaccurate but that is not clear in the rules.
MiBasse



Joined: Dec 04, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2021 - 14:27 Reply with quote Back to top

I think most stats on a ball-carrier or Blitzer would be welcome for most teams. Generally stats are worth more the more skills the player already has, and depending on how many T1 skills you have on the player already, conventional wisdom would suggest taking stat increases later in a player's progression.
DrClaes



Joined: Mar 16, 2018

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2021 - 15:28 Reply with quote Back to top

+MA on a halfling treeman is 20k and lets them get up from the ground with no dice rolling. Also increases blitz range considerably. Totally worth it after Block IMO. Also +MA on a halfling catcher is good. +AG on a stunty ball carrier makes TTM plays more viable, but obviously it makes gobbos taste like bacon just like before.
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2021 - 15:44 Reply with quote Back to top

any treeman really, if you get a stat you don't like you can always fall back to block or pro
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 01, 2021 - 13:08 Reply with quote Back to top

Skinks are a good candidate for +MV

Score 1 TD with each skink, roll a random A skill for 10k
If anyone gets Sidestep or Sprint, they become main carrier, and then save up 20 SPP to get +MV
Once they've got say Sprint and +MV they only cost 60+10+20k, and are a nice 1turn scorer with just a single push

It's very strong for lizard teams to be able to reliably buy a 90k 1turn option, without having to wait for random chance of +stats in the old system
Chameleon skink having On The Ball makes 1turning easier, too.
MiBasse



Joined: Dec 04, 2004

Post   Posted: Nov 01, 2021 - 13:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Sp00keh wrote:
Skinks are a good candidate for +MV

Score 1 TD with each skink, roll a random A skill for 10k
If anyone gets Sidestep or Sprint, they become main carrier, and then save up 20 SPP to get +MV
Once they've got say Sprint and +MV they only cost 60+10+20k, and are a nice 1turn scorer with just a single push

It's very strong for lizard teams to be able to reliably buy a 90k 1turn option, without having to wait for random chance of +stats in the old system
Chameleon skink having On The Ball makes 1turning easier, too.


I'm not sure a non-block skink is worth rolling stats for. I'd probably be more inclined to go for a random general skill first, and then maybe stats on one that gets block.

I'd also argue that skinks are already fairly easy to one-turn with in themselves. Not to say any of the things mentioned won't help.
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 01, 2021 - 13:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Interesting, so score 2x TDs then roll random a General, and fish for 20k Block to build a super-skink.
Would you keep any of the other General skills?

Dirty Player, Pro, Strip Ball, Fend, Kick, Sure Hands, Shadowing could all have uses,
I'd probably only want to be building expensive skinks on a big and developed team though
MiBasse



Joined: Dec 04, 2004

Post   Posted: Nov 01, 2021 - 14:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Sp00keh wrote:
Interesting, so score 2x TDs then roll random a General, and fish for 20k Block to build a super-skink.
Would you keep any of the other General skills?

Dirty Player, Pro, Strip Ball, Fend, Kick, Sure Hands, Shadowing could all have uses,
I'd probably only want to be building expensive skinks on a big and developed team though


Most of the general skills are ok. Dirty player makes an obvious up-coming sneaky git. Wrestle is great, as is Kick. Sure Hands is obviously preferable on a Chameleon, but still good value for a team that struggles to find enough RRs at times and helps against opposing Strip Ball.

Strip ball is ok, though less reliable without Block or Wrestle - I might aim for another random or go Wrestle as a picked secondary double as target.

Frenzy might be firing reason, but could be interesting as a side-line threat.

Dauntless is decent as is Shadowing and Fend.

Not sure how I feel about Pro. Makes a more reliable sweeper/back-up ball handler or some such. Not the worst at 20k, but might also just be a bit of a sand-bag and firing reason.
Azur



Joined: Nov 13, 2020

Post   Posted: Nov 01, 2021 - 15:08 Reply with quote Back to top

Shadowing was cool in 2016.
Violently nerfed in 2020.......... useless.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 01, 2021 - 16:10 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm practicing "saving up for a stat" near the end of the season (I'm only playing 15 games with each team until seasons rules kick in), so my players are cheaper to re-hire. But that's not actually about stats, it's about saving up so I can skill up after redraft.

With Humans and Orcs, if building for a tourney in the following season, I'd save up on my MB/T (and maybe Pro) Blitzer to get some stats. In that case, +ST might not be so bad, if it's on your key blitzer and you're tourney-bound: just be ready to let him go when the season is over. But MA is what you want with a guy like that: A MA8 Blitzer gives Orcs a one-turn option. In that case, I'd probably take a Thrower and ... save up for MA on him.

Generally, I think stat-ups are going to be a thing for blitzers, carriers, OTS players, and a few corner-cases. I could see saving up for a stat on a Zombie who got a good random normal like Block or Wrestle or Kick or something, because you don't want to skill him anymore, and AV makes him better at his job for just 10k.

The discussion of random Agility vs General skills on stunties ... it probably belongs in the other thread, but it's been referenced here. I'm in favor of random General skills on stunties, rather than Agility skills. Block, Dauntless, Wrestle, Pro, Sure Hands, (one) Kick, and Dirty Player are all good. Tackle, Strip Ball, and Fend are situational on a Stunty, but aren't useless. It sucks that Shadowing sucks so bad now, but it's not so bad on a Skink. Frenzy sucks unless you have Dauntless.

_________________
Focus not on things you can't control, like bad dice, but instead on things under your power, like how far you flip the table.
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 01, 2021 - 16:56 Reply with quote Back to top

@JackassRampant yes you're right actually some of that belongs in other thread.

Here's another +Stat example. For most Big Guys, first skill is Guard at 20k
Next, do you take Block at 40k? Or random S skill at 10k?
Or... +AV at 10k?

+AV is likely a solid option for Trolls and other punchbags.
And for Rat Ogres / Minotaurs etc, it takes away some of the risk of blitzing with them
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 01, 2021 - 17:13 Reply with quote Back to top

In a TV-matching environment, I'm taking Block first on my first Mummy. 3 games in, he's at 10 SPP. Block, then Guard, Stand Firm, and if he can get a stat in 3 seasons I'm hoping for Movement (+AG/+ST becomes Dodge). MA4 on a Stand Firm mummy is huge.

_________________
Focus not on things you can't control, like bad dice, but instead on things under your power, like how far you flip the table.
wintergreen13



Joined: Apr 10, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 01, 2021 - 19:04 Reply with quote Back to top

I'd say this is fairly spot-on. For me, the top priority players for stats are those that a.) amass a lot of SPP b.) don't really need any skills, and c.) can benefit from +MA or +AV if they don't strike something better, like +AG. So Anointed Throwers, Dwarf Runners, Human Throwers, Mr. Throw if you run him, etc.
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