FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Joined: Feb 17, 2008

Posted: May 28, 2024 - 20:55

just to understand, I thought that Claw doesn't stack anymore with MB:

Hypermania blitzes Tomtobol:
Re-Rolled Block Dice [ POW ]
Hypermania re-rolled 1 block die using Pro.
Block Roll [ PUSHBACK ] [ POW ]
Block Result [ POW ]
Armour Roll [ 6 ][ 2 ]
Rolled Total of 8
Hypermania uses Claws to reduce opponent's armour to 8+.
The armour of Tomtobol has been broken.
Injury Roll [ 1 ][ 6 ]
Rolled Total of 7 + 1 Mighty Blow = 8
Tomtobol has been knocked out.

it seems just different to me

_________________
"la virtù sta nel cielo e nella terra, ma anche nelle nuvole e nelle stelle"

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: May 28, 2024 - 20:59

Claws: a roll of 8+ before applying any modifier will break armour regardless of the actual armor value.

Mighty Blow doesn't stack with Claws to break the AV, but it can be used for the Injury roll.

awambawamb

Joined: Feb 17, 2008

Posted: May 28, 2024 - 21:13

clear, thanks

_________________
"la virtù sta nel cielo e nella terra, ma anche nelle nuvole e nelle stelle"

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: May 28, 2024 - 21:24

Prego!

Carthage

Joined: Mar 18, 2021

Posted: May 28, 2024 - 21:52

Hm, this makes me wonder. If you have a chainsaw with 10 armor, and you hit it with a claw player, are they effectively AV8+, AV7+ or AV5+?
My bet is 7+ given a question I had about mighty blowing saw players, I'd expect claw to be similar.

Nelphine

Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Posted: May 28, 2024 - 23:05

chainsaw doesn't stack with anything (and you must use chainsaw), so you can't use claw (or mighty blow) against a chainsaw player

Sp00keh

Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Posted: May 29, 2024 - 10:58

Nelphine wrote:

chainsaw doesn't stack with anything

Correct

Nelphine wrote:

you can't use claw (or mighty blow) against a chainsaw player

I assume you mean 'with' instead of 'against', because you very much can mightyblow them

Carthage

Joined: Mar 18, 2021

Posted: May 29, 2024 - 21:39

Sp00keh wrote:

Nelphine wrote:

chainsaw doesn't stack with anything

Correct

Nelphine wrote:

you can't use claw (or mighty blow) against a chainsaw player

I assume you mean 'with' instead of 'against', because you very much can mightyblow them

You actually can't! That was what led me to learning that. I hit a goblin saw with an 11 AV check, then rolled a 7 on the injury expecting a +1 to make it a badly hurt.
Shockingly, it was just a KO. Apparently in the book it actually explicitly says you can't use the mighty blow for the injury. I have a help ticket in the discord about it because I thought it was a bug back in November. If you search "mighty" in the staff-help channel, it's that one.

Carthage

Joined: Mar 18, 2021

Posted: May 29, 2024 - 21:41

Nelphine wrote:

chainsaw doesn't stack with anything (and you must use chainsaw), so you can't use claw (or mighty blow) against a chainsaw player

Yup so 7+. Wasn't sure since claw isn't doing a modifier like mighty blow or chainsaw does, it just moves the armor down to 8+ if that was functionally different.
Like previous editions you applied the claw prior to applying the mighty blow, you could interpret this the same order. But I'm 100% sure you are right that the chainsaw precludes the claw.

Sp00keh

Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Posted: May 30, 2024 - 00:16

No no no no wait

Say I have a player with Mighty Blow and Claw
He throws a Block against a Chainsaw player and rolls a Pow
Mighty Blow and/or Claw can be used in this situation, right?

The Chainsaw player survives and hits the first player back. he also has Mighty Blow and Claw somehow. He [rolls a Pow] EDIT: rolls armour
Mighty Blow and Claw can both not be used in this situation, right?

Last edited by Sp00keh on %b %30, %2024 - %09:%May; edited 1 time in total

Nelphine

Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Posted: May 30, 2024 - 00:22

nope.
because the mighty blow/claw player 'uses' chainsaw against the chainsaw player (and he MUST use chainsaw against the chainsaw player), he cannot use mighty blow or claw against the chainsaw player.

chainsaw literally gives you immunity to mighty blow. its awful.

Lawson32PHX

Joined: Dec 07, 2023

Posted: May 30, 2024 - 03:18

Sp00keh wrote:

The Chainsaw player survives and hits the first player back. he also has Mighty Blow and Claw somehow. He rolls a Pow as well
Mighty Blow and Claw can both not be used in this situation, right?

If the chainsaw player blocks with the chainsaw they would not roll a POW as they would just make an armour roll without block dice. They could still block like any other player without the chainsaw, in which case they could use CLaw/MB as it is not a chainsaw action then.

Sp00keh

Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Posted: May 30, 2024 - 10:10

Nelphine wrote:

nope.
because the mighty blow/claw player 'uses' chainsaw against the chainsaw player (and he MUST use chainsaw against the chainsaw player), he cannot use mighty blow or claw against the chainsaw player.

chainsaw literally gives you immunity to mighty blow. its awful.

So it says in the chainsaw rule that a player hitting a chainsaw getting a Player Down! (skull) or a Pow adds +3 to the armour roll
If it's Bothdown, then +3 to both armour rolls
If chainsaw is Knocked Down, then +3 to armour rolls

Mighty Blow says the skill cannot be used with the Chainsaw or Stab traits,
Also that if you block someone down you modify either armour or injury by +1

FAQ doesn't really clarify anything on this

The MB/C player doesn't 'use' the chainsaw trait, though. That's a stretch imo. they're not gaining the trait

There's scope for interpretting either the +1 modifier being replaced by a +3 modifier - OR - stacking together to give +4
There's not clear precedent for this imo

Either way, MB could still work on the Injury roll, against a Chainsaw. so you're not totally immune?

Nelphine

Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Posted: May 30, 2024 - 14:22

The current interpretation is that if the mb/c player hits the chainsaw player, the mb/c player gets the +3 to armour from the chainsaw, due to the chainsaw rule.

In order to get a bonus from something, that thing must be activated (used). Therefore the mb/c player is using the chainsaw [by using the chainsaw rule] (and more, they MUST use the chainsaw due to the chainsaw rule.) [This also prevents the mb/c player from using claw, because they must use chainsaw, and claw can't be used if the roll is modified. Which is ok, since chainsaw by itself is always at least as good as claw by itself, and in almost all cases, chainsaw is better than claw.]

Because the mb/c player used the chainsaw, the mb rule kicks in, and they can't use mb. Unlike the claw rule and its interaction with mb (which specifies against armour), the mb rule and its interaction with chainsaw doesnt specify. Its just a blanket 'you can't use it'. So the mb/c player can't use mb against armour, or injury.

Last edited by Nelphine on %b %30, %2024 - %14:%May; edited 1 time in total

Lawson32PHX

Joined: Dec 07, 2023

Posted: May 30, 2024 - 14:31

Sp00keh wrote:

Nelphine wrote:

nope.
because the mighty blow/claw player 'uses' chainsaw against the chainsaw player (and he MUST use chainsaw against the chainsaw player), he cannot use mighty blow or claw against the chainsaw player.

chainsaw literally gives you immunity to mighty blow. its awful.

So it says in the chainsaw rule that a player hitting a chainsaw getting a Player Down! (skull) or a Pow adds +3 to the armour roll
If it's Bothdown, then +3 to both armour rolls
If chainsaw is Knocked Down, then +3 to armour rolls

Mighty Blow says the skill cannot be used with the Chainsaw or Stab traits,
Also that if you block someone down you modify either armour or injury by +1

FAQ doesn't really clarify anything on this

The MB/C player doesn't 'use' the chainsaw trait, though. That's a stretch imo. they're not gaining the trait

There's scope for interpretting either the +1 modifier being replaced by a +3 modifier - OR - stacking together to give +4
There's not clear precedent for this imo

Either way, MB could still work on the Injury roll, against a Chainsaw. so you're not totally immune?

The chainsaw trait is still being applied to the block resolution even if the MB player doesn't have it themself. So because the chainsaw is being applied to the roll the Mighty Blow does not allow itself to be used. The chainsaw player is technically using the trait on themself when they go down if you want to think of it that way.