vigil
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Oct 16, 2003 - 05:34 |
 
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3-1-0 is fine but I think Twahn was saying that under 3-1-0 we're going to have a lot of ties since it's so simple. The seven and eight point systems are good because they give a greater scope to represent degrees of victory - a minor win or a total massacre - which ends up meaning that people are spread more accurately through the rankings rather than the guy at the top having the same score as five others but having a team name beginning with A. (This will really get unfair when it's time to transfer teams down from the premier league etc.)
In deference to the fact that the SWL seems to have evolved into a bloodbowl game slightly less bloody than typical bloodbowl (which is fair enough considering the mandatory coaching of elf teams) I give you the new improved 7 point system!
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10 point for playing
40 points for a win
25 points for a draw
10 point for the winner if the margin of TD is greater than 1
10 point for the loser if the margin of TD is less than 1
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Hooray! An alternative where CAS doesn't affect your score but there's still diverse point distribution and even orcs or undead can score a major victory without relying on those insane 4-0 results that elves manage to pull out of nowhere. If orcs win 3-1 we're as impressed league-wise as if skaven win 16-0. Of course SPPs are still their own reward, but how do people find this system in regulating while spreading out rankings? |
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FLo711
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 16, 2003 - 05:57 |
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..Looks good 2 me but how about 50 for the win? doesn't seem right a draw being worth more than half a win... |
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(Ex-Tyrant) Clay's Blog: Lime Kettles |
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vigil
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 16, 2003 - 06:07 |
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Well a draw is worth 35 technically while a win is either worth 50 or 60. Maybe someone can fiddle with the numbers to get the range more even. I'm just trying to get the idea out and workshopped. |
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ClayInfinity
Joined: Aug 15, 2003
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Oct 16, 2003 - 06:30 |
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Drop the 10 for showing up... you don't need to reward participation...
Bring it back to single digits...
4 for the win
2 for the draw each
Bonus pt to the victor by 2 TD's or more
Bonust pt to the loser who loses by only 1
Winner can score 4 or 5 points, loser scores 0 or 1 pts
Draws get 2 each
CAS's do not come into scoring
A conceded result is 5-0 to the winner-loser... |
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cataphract
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 16, 2003 - 06:47 |
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perhaps im missing something but it simply seems that when a bashy team wins they will likely win big 7-1, 6-2. whereas a dodgy team has a harder time winning bigger. and given that both teams at least have an even chance of winning (regardless if dodgy teams can score more TD's), it appears biased towards bashy teams. if a bashy team and dodgy team have won equal games it is most likely going to be the bashy team on more points due to the better chance of winning more cas counts. Let winning be the important thing, by whatever style best suits your team.
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I would say that the likelihood of a bashy team winning a game by more than two touchdowns is equivalent to an ag team winning the casualty count.
both these events are worth equal points... under the 7/8 point system...
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if a bashy team and dodgy team have won equal games it is most likely going to be the bashy team on more points due to the better chance of winning more cas counts.
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not neccesarily since the ag team has a better chance of winning by more than 2 TD... |
_________________
"the eunuch should not take pride in its chastity" |
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Twahn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 16, 2003 - 07:04 |
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Ahhh... but now you give advantage to the fast teams as they're style of play makes it easier for them to score a multiple TD victory, whereas a bashy team is far more likely to squeeze out their victories 2-1 in typical caging stalling style...
Umm... as is stated by cataphract above.  |
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ClayInfinity
Joined: Aug 15, 2003
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Oct 16, 2003 - 07:14 |
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3-1-0 and be done with it Twahn...
And when it comes to tied placings for promotion / relegation, lets settle it on the pitch!
If 4th & 5th tie in Premier Lg, let them have a Play-Off Qualifier...
If 6th & 7th tie for relegation in any division let them playoff with the loser dropping...
If 2nd & 3rd tie for promotion in 1st Div or below, again another playoff is required!
Forget casualties and TD's... lets settle it like men! (No offence to the Amazonians amongst us) |
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vigil
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 16, 2003 - 07:17 |
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Well for all my suggesting of other systems ultimately I'm still a fan of the 7 point system - like cata says for a team to have played his bashy players forward enough to be winning the CAS count and his runny players forward enough to have a 2 point lead on his opponent - that deserves a special mention. Orcs have to sweat to score 2 TD more than their opponent - they can't stall, or cage, they need to run. And elves need to take the fight to their opponent to get the blocks needed for more CAS - it's a case of a herculean victory for either team to win both sides - most games under 7 point system are 4-3 wins or 5-2 - very few are the 6-1 massacres. |
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Rennigeb
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 16, 2003 - 07:26 |
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| vigil wrote: | 3-1-0 is fine but I think Twahn was saying that under 3-1-0 we're going to have a lot of ties since it's so simple.
10 point for playing
40 points for a win
25 points for a draw
10 point for the winner if the margin of TD is greater than 1
10 point for the loser if the margin of TD is less than 1
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If you remove the ten points for playing, you've just offered a 3-1.5-0 system as an alternative. Doesnt this reward those pushing for draws even more???
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The 3-1-0 is the only fair and unbias scoring system. Isnt the purpose of the game not to cause casualties but to win the game. Draws are rewarded for that achievement can be a fight as well, but not to the extent of victory. A pure bash team aiming to draw throughout the season will end up in the lower half of the table, and at risk of dropping.
This scoring system places the focus of the game on where it should be, not that one team can out-bash another, but that the coach has used the racial abilities of the team better than the opposing coach. For isnt this the true determinant (ignoring luck) of a successful winning coach? |
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ClayInfinity
Joined: Aug 15, 2003
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Oct 16, 2003 - 07:31 |
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Spot on Rennie, 3-1-0 is the way to go...
Tie breakers settled on the pitch.... |
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cataphract
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 16, 2003 - 07:40 |
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yes but as we already mentioned with a season only going for eight rounds the 3-1-0 system will end up with a lot of coaches on equal ladder points |
_________________
"the eunuch should not take pride in its chastity" |
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Rennigeb
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 16, 2003 - 08:04 |
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If two + teams are level in points:
two ways....
TD difference: this will imply that even if you are losing that every TD is still important. Very easy to apply too.
match result: look at the result of the match where these two teams (or groups of matches for 3+ teams) played. If that was a draw, then in order of lower str to higher |
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neverborn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 16, 2003 - 14:02 |
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Twahn, while the ag teams are benefitted a little by the multiple TD score, they are disadvantaged by the points we give out for CAS
so in the end, if you bash and score you get lots, if you do one or the other you do less well, and everyone is advantaged by having a good defence and a good offense
Sounds like a good system to me (the 7-8 point system that is) |
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Twahn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 17, 2003 - 02:00 |
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neverborn,
I know this. My above comment was in reply to a proposal to remove the CAS benefit, thereby keeping the AG advantage but losing the ST one...
I like the 7/8 system too. It's only problem is that ST teams, I think, are more likely to win by 2 or more TDs than AG teams are to win the CAS war. It's all good in the end though. Who really cares?
ST teams seem to be doing quite well in our leagues at the moment though and we've currently got a system that only rewards you for scoring excess TDs. Hmmm...
There won't be any concerns with teams on level scores if we go for the 3-1-0 model. No one should have any fears there.
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On another note... I've noticed in my wanderings that there's a league out there that awards a 'Brownlow' type Player MVP award. Funtastic!! This has now been implemented using the following tried and true method...
3 votes for the highest SPP earning player, 2 for the second highest, 1 for the third. Ties will be broken by priority being given to SPP earning actions in the following order (INT,TD,CAS,COMP,MVP), so that a player with an INT and 3 COMPs will get preference over a player with 2 CAS and a COMP (for example). Preference will then be given to players on the winning team, and will be decided randomly if needed.
If insufficient SPP earning players exist, points will simply not be awarded.
We'll call them, the Twahnlows!! 
Unless I can get a representative from each of the Regionals to do the admin for this, it will only be for the Premier as I just don't have the time to do too much work.  |
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ClayInfinity
Joined: Aug 15, 2003
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Oct 17, 2003 - 02:42 |
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So you're saying 3-1-0? If so, fantastic, but as I said nobody is going to quit over it...
Note how the new faction set up only rewards TD's... no CAS issues there...
Also, I think the Twahnlows are a good idea, but it has to be PLge players only - can't have no stunty from Div 3 winning player of the year! Heavens above! |
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