| Poll |
| Should the skinks be changed? |
| No, they are perfect as is. |
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28% |
[ 17 ] |
| Yes, and poisonous dinolizards are the way to go. |
|
20% |
[ 12 ] |
| Yes, but let them keep the Sauri as well as the poisonous dinolizards. |
|
6% |
[ 4 ] |
| Yes, but let them keep the Adepts as well as the poisonous dinolizards. |
|
1% |
[ 1 ] |
| Yes, but bring back the Kroxigor as well as the poisonous dinolizards. |
|
10% |
[ 6 ] |
| Yes, but they should only have plain old boring skinks, nothing else. |
|
11% |
[ 7 ] |
| Yes but I've got a better idea which I'll post. |
|
6% |
[ 4 ] |
| Grumble! Grumble! Grumble! I'm a dook and think stunty should be removed! |
|
15% |
[ 9 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 60 |
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EvolveToAnarchism
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Oct 26, 2003 - 23:26 |
 
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Anyone who plays stunty should know that Skinks are just too damn potent. They've had Kroxigors, then they got Sauri in an attempt to balance them. Adepts of Sotek were added when secret weapons were handed out. I don't believe that any of these changes have balanced the skinks in relation to the other stunty leeg teams. In fact the Adept may have made them even better.
What I propose is that the Skinks should get a liability big guy to make up for their awesome speed. Ditch the adept and sauri and give them a poisonous dino/lizard creature:
M 5 ST3 AG2 AV 8 Wild Animal, Really Stupid, Poison Dagger
Wild Animal because monsters should be unreliable.
Really Stupid to represent the need for handlers.
Poison Dagger to represent it's poisonous bite and a penalty roll because monsters aren't supposed to be on the pitch.
It's got 2 negatraits, but Wild Animal is moderated by Poison Dagger, so no minotaur trapping this guy. But when combined with really stupid, it's a risky proposal to risk your blitz trying to use its poisonous bite. You could give them access to 2 of them if you think it's too harsh a downgrade to take away both the Adept and the Sauri.
But most importantly it gives a true Mayhem feature to the skinks which they desperately need.
My biggest concern was giving this creature a name. Thanks to Ilthikir, I've got a few ideas:
Gilasaur (based off an actual poisonous lizard, the Gila Monster)
Dilophosaurus (based off an actual dinosaur, theorized to be poisonous)
Venenumasaur (latin for poison with "asaur" added)
Salamander (From the WH universe; I think they used to spew venom in one of their incarnations)
Hold a poll to name them 
As Always,
Evolve To Anarchism
Poisonous Lizards |
_________________
Ignorance is Strength quis custodiet ipsos custodes As Always, Evolve To Anarchism |
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Twahn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 27, 2003 - 00:08 |
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They definately need both toning down and funning up, don't they.
I love the poisonous lizard things, excellent usage of existing rules to create something different from everything already around! Nice work Evo...
I think they should definately keep the Sauri though... existing fluff, they're still weaker than other Big Guys, teams with one position only are a little boring I think...
Salamander is the best name for them. The other Lizardman races don't have somethinga-saurus names so I don't think they're appropriate (a little too jurasic park as well...) It goes nicely with the simplicity of the existing Lizard names and is appropriate to their spitting ability too.  |
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DonTwahn's Dungeon = Cheap Miniatures! Check it out... |
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thmbscrws
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 27, 2003 - 00:25 |
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The skinks definatley need to be toned down some and have something done to make them more interesting. I'm not sure removing the saurus and the adept are the way to go because you then leave them with a two position roster. I think teams that only have two different types of players are really boring and leave little room for variations in strategy. I think giving them more options wold be more interesting. Maybe if they had some kinds of positional skinks or something. I know there are several different varietys of skinks in warhammer like chamelion skinks.
The poison lizard beasts are fairly week overall so perhaps if you were to remove the saurus give them one of the lizards and then think up some type of different skink. That way your team would have some variety besides just one random poison beast and a bunch of generic skinks. I think not having any type of real big boy would tone them down enough to allow for some other type of player on the list without overpowering them. Those are my thoughts on the subject, hope it will be of some constructive help in fixing this team. |
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"If God really existed it would be necessary to abolish him." - Mikhail Bakunin |
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EvolveToAnarchism
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 27, 2003 - 02:47 |
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Thanks for the feedback folks.
Perhaps dropping the big guys would be more palatable if they were given some other fun stuff. The two main contenders in my eyes are the Chameleon Skink and a revised Adpept of Sotek.
More Mayhem Skinks
0-16 Skink M8 ST2 AG3 AG3 AV7Stunty, Dodge, 60 K AG
0-2 Adpept of Sotek M8 ST2 AG3 AV7 Stunty, Dodge, Frenzy 80 K AG
0-2 Chameleon Skink M8 ST2 AG3 AV7Stunty, Dodge, Shadowing 70 K AG
0-2 Salamander M 5 ST3 AG2 AV 8 Wild Animal, Really Stupid, Poison Dagger, Big Guy 80? K G
Nothing over the top, just slight tweaks on the 2 skinks to compensate for the loss of Sauri. I was tempted to mess around with the stats on the Chameleons or Adepts, but couldn't think of anything suitably thematic. I think the team would still be very competitive with this roster.
Any thoughts?
As Always,
Evolve To Anarchism
Arrogant Worms
Edit: Corrected skill access on Salamanders and added Big Guy |
_________________
Ignorance is Strength quis custodiet ipsos custodes As Always, Evolve To Anarchism
Last edited by EvolveToAnarchism on %b %27, %2003 - %05:%Oct; edited 2 times in total |
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Michael_Warblade
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 27, 2003 - 03:43 |
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you do know that with poison dagger they wont actually have any chance of failure(hence no missed turns) with the salamanders(except as if the coach fails to click poison dagger)?
as such wild animal is completely redundant
maybe drop the skink AV to 6 or even make them a positional type player (say 6 on the team at most) |
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thmbscrws
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 27, 2003 - 04:16 |
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I like that list a lot, looks more like a team i would play. I assume the salamanders are supposed to have gen and str not agility thats a typo right? |
_________________
"If God really existed it would be necessary to abolish him." - Mikhail Bakunin |
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Twahn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 27, 2003 - 04:35 |
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Good job Evo. Nice.
Salamanders should have access to AG skills only in my opinion (as you've got them), nothing wrong with them being Wild Animals (sure they can't be trapped, but going first still affects them), consider lowering their AV to 7? (Can't see why they're so heavily armoured...).
The Chameleon Skink might rule the field with MV 8 and Shadowing. He'll be very annoying.
I like the revised Adept too.
Shame the Sauri are gone though... Oh well. |
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Founder of the Southern Wastes League
DonTwahn's Dungeon = Cheap Miniatures! Check it out... |
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thmbscrws
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 27, 2003 - 05:02 |
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The way i picture the salamaders is as big slow reptiles, kinda like an anklosaurus or the warhammer salamander mini. As such they should be tough, they are covered in thick scales after all. I think having wild animal and no frenzy reflects the slugish aspect of them, but i think they should be tougher. I think they would feel better as a big nasty lizard with one less move and one more armor, not especially strong but really durable and with a nasty disposition. |
_________________
"If God really existed it would be necessary to abolish him." - Mikhail Bakunin |
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thmbscrws
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 27, 2003 - 05:33 |
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I had one more thought about the salamanders, shouldn't they have big boy. I realize they aren't technically "big" being only str 3, but they are monsters so i don't imagine that they would gain to much from practice with the team and good coaching. |
_________________
"If God really existed it would be necessary to abolish him." - Mikhail Bakunin |
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whitey
Joined: Sep 19, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 27, 2003 - 06:25 |
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I like those ideas, WA means that he can't wait for room to made around the salamander, then go off poisoning your ball carrier or AG5 'fling. |
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m0nty
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 27, 2003 - 06:35 |
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OK, so with WA you have to block an adjacent player if you're standing, but Poisoned Dagger says you can choose to knife them instead. Which takes precedence? If WA takes precedence, the dagger would be unusable except on blitzes. If PD takes precedence, WA is no longer a negative trait. Either way, it subverts one of the skills so much as to make salamanders unbalanced. In any case, salamanders aren't humanoid, so they are frowned upon as candidates for Blood Bowl players (bull centaurs being a special case!). If you persist with the idea, might I suggest:
0-1 M4 ST6 AG1 AV10 Big Guy, Mighty Blow, Ball & Chain G S 60k
Lots of mayhem, but no rerolls on those blocks, and B&C includes all the WA neg effects as well as the penalty rolls because it's not bipedal. The Ball & Chain is the best approximation of the salamander's normal WH artillery fire/venom (the only other alternative is Chainsaw, but that doesn't have the random aspect). For the purposes of fluff, it might be considered that there is a little skink rider on top, but he has no control over the direction of his mount. Goblin Fanatics are only 50k, so the 60k price for the salamander takes into account the addition of MB and the negatrait of BG. |
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whitey
Joined: Sep 19, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 27, 2003 - 08:53 |
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That guy's gonna die hard. No Re-roll on Exhaustion roll will kill him swiftly.
WA is still a neg trait, he must knife a guy next to him, so a sacrafice is in order, to keep that knifer stuck in one spot. |
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cataphract
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 27, 2003 - 09:26 |
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bombs would be better to simulate poison spitting... any news from skijunkie when they'll be implemented? |
_________________
"the eunuch should not take pride in its chastity" |
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poi66
Joined: Aug 16, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 27, 2003 - 10:18 |
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There are some very nice ideas around...lol - and they have all one thing in common: the Skinks would be funnier to play, but it won´t stop them winning!
I tried the Skinks for only one reason... a buddy of mine started four times with them and failed every time. They got mangled by Minotaurus etc.
I was more luckier then him and survived the first couple of games. No I got 13 Skinks, an Adept and two sauri. I played 17 games, won 13 and lost only two...
But not because of the Adept or the Sauri. Only because the little devils are so incredible fast...
The "Big Guys" are a choke... it took me almost 10 games to get one of them block... The Adept is nice - but in my games he always gets caught after the first TD!
So, my point is: Skinks are very expensive, but if you manage to get a full roster, they are unstoppable. Doesn´t matter if you give them a Kroxi or two sauri or some other BGs. The skinks don´t need them to win. You could give them 16 skinks and nothing else...it wouldn´t matter... But that would be very boring and no one would play them anymore.
But this goes only for winning matches, not to survive them... A Minotaurus with Claw, RSC and Multiple Block can take out a skink team by him allone in 16 Turns.
I played a fun game (stand alone) with my Skinks against my Chaos Flings
(they have this creepy Mino). The Skinks won the game by far... but the team was gone.
Because of that I love the idea of the Wild Beast with the poison dagger... would be very interesting to play with and against.
And talking of teams they are too strong: Snots... (2 Pumpwagon St6, 3 Trolls ST5 and 2 poison daggers is too extreme...) |
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RogueSangre
Joined: Sep 24, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 27, 2003 - 11:01 |
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I'll complain about snot's when I see one score a touchdown
they're harder to win with than khemri
and I voted 'other' on the skinks for the 'more mayham' version, the whole team should be st2, but that doesn't mean they all gotta be the same. |
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