westerner
Joined: Jul 02, 2008
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 Posted:
Feb 04, 2009 - 20:41 |
 
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Is it possible to have [B] discussions in the [B] forums without non [B] players griefing all over it?
I don't see [B] players whining in [R] discussions. How about some professional courtesy? |
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XtremeXwing
Joined: Dec 03, 2004
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Feb 04, 2009 - 20:58 |
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Just my 2 pence...
I love the Black Box leage, i stopped playing fumbbl for quite some time and came back to find [B]. An unknown team and oppoent is such a good idea. Now i cant speak to much about the teams i have faced as i have only played 6 games with my humans. But so far i have played High Elf, Ogre, Lizards, Orc, Necromantic and Chaos. So far touch wood i havent had any of these constant "Khremi" teams matched against me yet. But i do agree with a few things which could spice up the [B] League, some sort of ranking system would be great, or if a "ranking" system puts people off then add a [B] Tables page. This would give coaches something to aim for. Like have the Highest TR of all flings as an example.
Now as i stated i have been away from Fumbbl for quite some time but i dont know if this has been brought up but a Tournament in [B] would be great. None of these "boosting" matches and any prep match could lead to your teams end before the start of the Tournament. Which to me adds more fun to a team. "oh i just need 10k more for another reroll il activate my team, ah S**T i got picked vs dwarfs"
A constant thing that is brought up from what i have read is "Bashers own the [B] league, well 2 points 1. Dont cry if your pixels die and 2. Just because you can pick who you want to play in Ranked and play elf ball every game isnt really what Bloodbowl is all about. Playing against a variety of teams with a variety of skills is. And this in my opinion blackbox has done for me so far so thumbs up [B]    |
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funnyfingers
Joined: Nov 13, 2005
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Feb 04, 2009 - 21:05 |
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How can you put Norse in the group A? |
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Eddy
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
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Feb 04, 2009 - 21:05 |
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| soultoken wrote: | | 1. Dont cry if your pixels die |
I wish Nuffle would curse people who say that for 10 games in a row, every time... |
_________________
'The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance.'
Robert R. Coveyou |
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funnyfingers
Joined: Nov 13, 2005
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Feb 04, 2009 - 21:06 |
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Just posting the ELF groups here showing where Norse really are, no where near dwarves, khemri, and orcs:
Cat A (Brutal): Dwarves, Chaos Dwarves, Khemri (-2)
Cat B (Strong): Chaos, Orc, Ogre, Undead (-1)
Cat C (Average): Amazon, Human, Norse (0)
Cat D (Elf): Dark Elf, High Elf, Pro Elf, Wood Elf (+1)
Cat E (Odd): Necro, Lizard, Skaven, Stunty, Vampire (+1) |
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Eddy
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
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Feb 04, 2009 - 21:09 |
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Well, it depends what those groups are supposed to mean. Only Snappy knows what he meant. If i had to do some grouping myself, i'd sort the team by their current popularity. |
_________________
'The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance.'
Robert R. Coveyou |
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XtremeXwing
Joined: Dec 03, 2004
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Feb 04, 2009 - 21:10 |
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| Eddy wrote: | | soultoken wrote: | | 1. Dont cry if your pixels die |
I wish Nuffle would curse people who say that for 10 games in a row, every time... |
But just looking at your teams atm your a convertor it seems to [B] which is great and just looking at your woodies they are doing great atm only a few dead in all the games you played, and you can get worse that that in ranked when u "cherrypick" teams with your woodies. But at the end of the day if you do cry every time a player dies this game isnt for you.... |
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Eddy
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
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Feb 04, 2009 - 21:16 |
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| soultoken wrote: |
But just looking at your teams atm your a convertor it seems to [B] which is great and just looking at your woodies they are doing great atm only a few dead in all the games you played, and you can get worse that that in ranked when u "cherrypick" teams with your woodies. But at the end of the day if you do cry every time a player dies this game isnt for you.... |
What i think is sad is that whenever some people say "it's a problem that there are a vast majority of bashy teams", some others answer "don't cry over your pixels".
The thing is, "bashy" pixels die much less than others. It's pathetic to see people whose players don't actually risk too much to die rail coaches playing AV7 a lot.
There's also, of course, the fact that some don't care about their pixels, and would be equally bored to play "almost only elves" as they are to play "almost only bashers". |
_________________
'The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance.'
Robert R. Coveyou |
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Naboimp
Joined: Dec 23, 2008
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Feb 04, 2009 - 21:16 |
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Here's my perspective on the divisions for what its worth.
I'm new to the site. My first team was an Academy team because that was what was recommended. After going through a steep learning curve over my first few games, I formed a second Academy team for variety. Since these games were over free time around the holidays, I was able to put up with the time it took to find games and get them going. My observations are that there are never a lot of Academy matchups available, the coaches are rarely on chat so it requires PM's (and significant time) to set up a game, and since most are new, even getting the game up at all sometimes is a challenge. Fair enough since Academy is for new players, but I determined it was not the place to get a quick game.
My next team was a Ranked team. There are always plenty of available teams listed in gamefinder for Ranked, and most of these players are more experienced. That's two big advantages over Academy for getting in a quick game. But the reality is that setting up games is still hit or miss. Some of these coaches still aren't on chat. In fact, some of them aren't even online at all. (What's with putting teams in gamefinder and going offline a minute later?) When I do contact a coach who responds, a lot of times I'll be told they already have a match lined up, or they'll just say no. (That's their prerogative in Ranked, but it does add to the time in finding a match.) So yes, there have been occasions when I have gotten a match in Ranked quickly, but there have also been occasions when it has taken significantly longer (20 minutes plus).
Blackbox does offer a way to get matches quickly. Yes, you have to time it right, or you have to wait, but in that case, I am no worse off than otherwise since I can always try to find a game for one of the other teams. The other coaches are expecting the match to begin at that time so they are always on chat and ready to start, which is a big advantage, and the auto scheduling assures that you don't have to worry about your opponent agreeing to another match or refusing to play you.
Truthfully, I was reluctant to make a Blackbox team because of its reputation as a haven for ultra-bashy teams, especially when I'm basically a rookie coach. But I went ahead and did so anyway to test it out. I did choose Ogres as a race in part because I wanted at least some chance to survive against bashy teams. So far, I'd say the super bashing I feared hasn't really been a problem. I've got a positive bashing differential (not because I've been particularly bashy, but because they are Ogres after all). My record hasn't been very good, but it isn't for lack of trying - most of the games have been competitive. But the matches have been varied and mostly fun. My impression is that most of the coaches I've played, like me, are just enjoying a quick game.
I am interested in developing a team over time as well, and to some extent I do that for all my teams. However, my Academy teams and my Blackbox team have no apparent goal to shoot for except to survive and get better at winning. My Ranked team could enter tournaments, and perhaps it will someday, but for now, I'm just working at getting better with that team too. Instead, for that sense of having a structure within which to advance, I've now created a fifth team in the League division. No games yet, but that'll change soon. Different teams for different needs. Quick play v. structured and scheduled play. Competitive play v. play for fun and learning.
To me, tournaments for Blackbox seems antithetical to its nature. Its main characteristic is automatic scheduling based upon comparable strengths. But in a tournament setting, this would mean that the two most proficient teams would face off in the first round while the second round would also be sure to include one of the two weakest teams. That could create some interesting results, but it would likely end up in an anti-climactic final. More likely, a Blackbox tournament would be removing Blackbox teams from the Box entirely to match them up in a Ranked style tournament. I don't see anything wrong with that, but the only thing Blackbox about that tournament would be the background of the teams entered (the training ground, so to speak). |
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Snappy_Dresser
Joined: Feb 11, 2005
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Feb 05, 2009 - 02:15 |
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| funnyfingers wrote: | Just posting the ELF groups here showing where Norse really are, no where near dwarves, khemri, and orcs:
Cat A (Brutal): Dwarves, Chaos Dwarves, Khemri (-2)
Cat B (Strong): Chaos, Orc, Ogre, Undead (-1)
Cat C (Average): Amazon, Human, Norse (0)
Cat D (Elf): Dark Elf, High Elf, Pro Elf, Wood Elf (+1)
Cat E (Odd): Necro, Lizard, Skaven, Stunty, Vampire (+1) |
ELF groups have absolutely nothing to do with my categories, and do a completely different thing (I'd imagine) |
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<PurpleChest> the way it splooshed got me so excited
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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| westerner wrote: | Is it possible to have [B] discussions in the [B] forums without non [B] players griefing all over it?
I don't see [B] players whining in [R] discussions. How about some professional courtesy? |
um, no.
Every fumbbl coach is a B coach, at least in potencial, or are we that do not currently play not invited to? If so, B can only get smaller.
Especially in a thread that seeks to encourage wider participation, is not the view of the non participator important? |
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Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intelligor illis -Ovid
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone |
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westerner
Joined: Jul 02, 2008
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| Posted:
Feb 05, 2009 - 03:57 |
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Games played are not a strict prerequisite... constructive comments and/or courtesy would be appreciated, however. |
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Balle2000
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
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Feb 05, 2009 - 05:40 |
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| westerner wrote: | Is it possible to have [B] discussions in the [B] forums without non [B] players griefing all over it?
I don't see [B] players whining in [R] discussions. How about some professional courtesy? |
Word.
In addition I don't think that there are that many [B] or [R] loyalists either. This is more a false cognitive divide.
However, that there are clear cut [B] vs [R] advocates trolling/trawling the forums are for certain. |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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Feb 05, 2009 - 11:24 |
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| PainState wrote: | wow Sigmar1 you hit all my hot buttons on those posts!
1)I cant stand how people say how fast and convienant Black box is to find games. Well if you join the box 5 minutes before draw and not 28 minutes until draw because you just missed it. (...)You can find games very fast if you do not worry about the match up. |
That's the point. When I can choose my matchup, I do try to make it fair. It's complicated and frustrating when you end with a "no thx". At least in the box I am sure that we are all living the same.
Another point is that I *may* wait long in R depending on different factors. Now, with the box, I know: I'll start at 20:30, I join at 20:25 it will take 1 hour. That's JUST PERFECT. Before in R it was:
-"hi darling, I'll try to play a game"
-"How long will it take?"
-"Probably an 1h15 I think"
-"ok"
...20 mins later, still no correct game...
-"Bah I'll give up"
| Quote: | | 2)(...unrelated to blackbox...) |
| Quote: | | 3)IMO if the Box gets some form of tournaments it will not increase participation that much because the Box right now is pigeoned holed as the DIV for all the bashers, DP's and CL/RSC guys because they cant be avoided. In the end IMO thats why a lot of coaches are staying away. Now this might just be perception and not reality but the perception of the DIV is the reality to the vast majority of coaches who do not read the Threads and are not engaged in Fumbbl community, they just appear every so often play a game or two and are gone for a few days, those coaches make up the majority of the Fumbbl community. |
Some of us wanted a box to play against random opponents. I guess some took the opportunity to fill their desire for an unavoidable basher team.
Could it be that, after facing similar opponents, most of them left? After all, isn't their dream to crush their opponents team. But what happens to a khemri full fouling team when he faces that full claw chaos team?
I'm sure of nothing here, but who knows.
At Snappy:
I am defo not against brackets as I like to play every style, but historically, Christer has always been against enforcement of playstyles. I guess that a hard rule will never happen. |
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Snappy_Dresser
Joined: Feb 11, 2005
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Feb 05, 2009 - 20:22 |
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sk8bcn: then I guess it behooves us to convince him otherwise, rather than simply shrug and say "that's just the way it is". Black Box simply is not the open environment that Christer's rules originally applied to. I simply fail to see how the ruling of "live and let live" applies. |
_________________
<PurpleChest> the way it splooshed got me so excited
"I hear that shadow is a douchebag"
-Mr Foulscumm |
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