banana_fish900
Joined: Oct 13, 2003
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Apr 06, 2004 - 22:52 |
 
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I play Ogres quite a bit with my halflings. Depending on their makup, I like to go after the gobbos actually. If you manage to eliminate their ball handlers then you can be in pretty good shape. I also find that most ogre coaches play a little on the edge against flings. I think many of them have visions of double digit causualties dancing in their heads (so this may not translate well to other kinds of matches). Let them get spread out, beat up on their gobbos and (as mentioned above) be prepared to foul. And then foul some more. But seriously, AV9 thick skull or AV7 pincushion--you're much more likely to take the gobbos out of the game. |
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thmbscrws
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 06, 2004 - 23:35 |
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Thats all well and good until they get the inevitable agility 3 ogre or two. Once that happens they really don't need to put any gobbos on the field at all. |
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banana_fish900
Joined: Oct 13, 2003
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Apr 09, 2004 - 00:13 |
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| thmbscrws wrote: | | Thats all well and good until they get the inevitable agility 3 ogre or two. Once that happens they really don't need to put any gobbos on the field at all. |
Too true, it's all fun and games until they roll a +AG. |
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albator2001
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 17, 2004 - 20:02 |
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poodle-man
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 18, 2004 - 17:54 |
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How to play against an ogre team? Easy. Don't. |
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m0nty
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 18, 2004 - 18:06 |
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Might I remind everyone that skeletor's Ogre team, feared by all, failed to win the DivX Cup II? |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 18, 2004 - 20:12 |
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| Quote: |
Might I remind everyone that skeletor's Ogre team, feared by all, failed to win the DivX Cup II?
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Yeah right. Give me sweltering heat where they can only field 5 guys and I'll play them too. |
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SolomonKane
Joined: Jul 21, 2005
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Aug 02, 2005 - 07:58 |
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But all fear of the Ogre teams aside, it would seem that, to have any sort of a legitimate chance against them at 200+ TR, you'd have to use your (likely) superior mobility to pile up assists against them, and have a LOT of Guard and several Dauntless players besides. I should think elf teams would, at the higher TRs, actually have a better chance to win than some bashy teams, simply because they can make a lot of Dodge rolls in an effort to concentrate their blocks against only a few players per turn - in theory, anyway. We always see veteran coaches telling people to take Guard when they ask about elf doubles, especially with elf liners. It's not too much a stretch to expect that maybe a few elves would have Dauntless, too.
On offense, for example, the agility/elf team usually just tries to punch a hole in the LOS and flood the opponent's half with catchers, yes? Which means you would, ideally, only have to shove one or two Ogres out of the way (using those Guard and Dauntless guys) to make your run into the opposing half. The ogre team would be able to lay in TZs next turn and perhaps throw their blitz, maybe a block or two, but then you SHOULD be able to do something with the ball and with dodging by turn two, I hope? You're also fielding a 200+ TR team, your team is no bunch of slouches.
On defense, assuming the Ogres are only fielding Ogres because they got that +AG somewhere, I would think standard cage tactics apply: only allow them to make their blitz every turn, and make them work for every square of movement. Pile up assists on any Ogre that gets loose from the cage formation, otherwise just dodge away every turn. Wash, rinse, repeat. Wonderful in theory, anyway.
Let me restate: I realize this would be very difficult to do in practice, and my lack of playing experience doesn't help my case any. But at least, we're trying here to find SOME sort of solution to the problem, other than quivering in abject fear...which won't win you the game if you choose to play it.  |
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Dreamsplitter
Joined: Dec 01, 2004
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Aug 02, 2005 - 10:17 |
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I think Ogre's are perfectly balanced, being a bit on the fun side. Don't forget guys, they were made for table top leagues, not for fumbbl where the speed with which you develop doesn't matter. And in table top leagues they need to save up forever for the expensive ogres + rerolls, hardly get useful skills while being outplayed by every elf team and outbashed once in a while. so i don't think that ogres are broken in the environment blood bowl was made for. |
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Buur
Joined: Apr 29, 2004
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Aug 02, 2005 - 10:23 |
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even if they kept bigguy status they be broken....
you cant buy an ogre to your gobo team....
and did you want a third or fourth bigguy to you gobo team?... if the answer is yes then ogres are broken....
But its not a problem just dont play them...
-Buur |
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MiBasse
Joined: Dec 04, 2004
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Aug 02, 2005 - 10:56 |
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Phew, talk about thread revival... Anyway:
| Dreamsplitter wrote: | | I think Ogre's are perfectly balanced, being a bit on the fun side. Don't forget guys, they were made for table top leagues, not for fumbbl where the speed with which you develop doesn't matter. And in table top leagues they need to save up forever for the expensive ogres + rerolls, hardly get useful skills while being outplayed by every elf team and outbashed once in a while. so i don't think that ogres are broken in the environment blood bowl was made for. |
I disagree - I've never played with or vs Ogres in table top but I have however heard of others who have. According to them the Ogres did start out as a rather slap-stick comedy team but did however turn into a fun-killing, game destructive, über-team of death eventually. Ogres are Broken - no doubt. As long as they can actually field 8 Ogres or more it's just going to get broken at some point. Don't forget that Ogres are also very resilient which means fewer players lost and thus better chances of preserving SSPs.
Besides - even at low TR they can be a terrible opponent to face for str. 3 teams with AV 8 or less such as humans and Norse who can easily get dessimated by the Ogres even though they might win the game. Any team which can cause insane amounts of havoc early in a league shoud be considered broken in my oppinion as it severely affects the league's chances of survival. (Yes this includes Khemri). This being said I find playing against Ogres (and Khemri) fun from time to time but not something I'd ever wish to do on an enforced or regular basis. |
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Tommi
Joined: May 17, 2004
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Aug 02, 2005 - 11:10 |
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Well, I played my ogres up to 200+ TR, and they didnt get any better. With 10 ogres in line, average of 2 bonehead every turn = you are playing with only 9 players. As they dont have block, those RR:s are too valuable to be spent on boneheads. Play ogres if you have a team that can spare few possible casualties, like if you have cheap linemen, or if you have very high armor value. Keep your players spread out, and sooner or later you will get through. Ogres arent any worse for normal teams than any other bashing team, but ogre team tends to be good vs other bashing teams, as their slowness is not such a bad disadvantage. |
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Lord_Splutticus
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
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Aug 02, 2005 - 12:01 |
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Take a look at the replays of the Crazy Kings matches, they have played against many types of opponents, agile and bashy, high and low TR and they are by far the toughest Ogre team on FUMBBL.
The Crazy Kings always play the wall-of-flesh line-up, so you will see how to break it a lot of times and you will see what doesn't work.
When playing against Ogres, be patient, Ogres have a hard time playing a solid strategy because they can never count on their players to do even the simplest of tasks. Just waiting for boneheads actually really works as a strategy. Against Ogres, the more agile you are, the more patient you should be, which I know to be very, very counter-intuitive but playing against Ogres is a whole new game of bloodbowl and once you get the hang of it, it is one of the easiest rosters to win against. You have the better team, good coaching should almost always lead you to victory against Ogres, problem is that there is a lot of bad coaching against Ogres out there, because players just get way too intimidated by "dem Ogres". |
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Pau
Joined: Jan 12, 2005
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Aug 02, 2005 - 12:01 |
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you have to take ogres out, and your best bet is fouling with a DP. If you have a rr and block and an ogre doesn't have block, don't worry and attack him with a 2dice against you, its easy that he will go down, or at least he will be pushed (and that means he won't block you next turn!). Blitz all goblins out of the game. Gang all your players on an ogre if you can then foul foul foul. Its not that hard really. once you have managed to make him spend the apoth he will either concede (smart coach) or continue, so you can kill one of his ogres. also, remember they have no block so your dodgers will easily turn into blodgers vs them. Ogre teams are broken, for sure. They suck and are easy matches. |
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neverdodge
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 02, 2005 - 12:27 |
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| Lord_Splutticus wrote: | Take a look at the replays of the Crazy Kings matches, they have played against many types of opponents, agile and bashy, high and low TR and they are by far the toughest Ogre team on FUMBBL.
The Crazy Kings always play the wall-of-flesh line-up, so you will see how to break it a lot of times and you will see what doesn't work.
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average 4.45 cas / game that just seems wrong to me |
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