Igvy
Joined: Apr 29, 2007
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Apr 07, 2012 - 05:44 |
 
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For all you advanced coaches out there.
Simple question. When all you have is st3/ag3 players and no guard. How do you cope with people locking down all your players (with high st players like big guys), then blocking you to death?
Does it just come down to very clever positioning?
Or are there some tricks i just don't know.
Should I be doing more blitz chainpush to get them away?
(any mention of the highly unreliable dauntless skill will be ignored) |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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Apr 07, 2012 - 06:09 |
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block em.
-2d is rather good if you have block and the big guy doesn't (or standfirm). this is especially true if you have a reroll.
then clean up with a foul |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Apr 07, 2012 - 06:17 |
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Positioning of players is key. Usually the blitz can open up 2 or 3 follow up blocks IF you blitz in and then move to a new location and help on assists. Turning 1BD blocks into 2BD. Sometimes you need to throw a 1BD block just to get the big ugly off you.
ST5 big guys with out block. Throwing a -2BD against them is not bad odds. Even if you get just a push back that is good. Most coaches do not blitz with their big guys so a push back basically renders the big guy to just a assist guy with ST5.
Now let me deal with this dauntless issue right off the bat. ST3 lino with Daunt VS ST4 guys works on a 2+. Dauntless is no longer a ST2 buff. that is when it becomes unreliable. If you have 2 Linos after they get block and you find you are playing a lot of races that have ST4 players having one or two dauntless players is not a bad option. But once again it is a position game. You need to be aware of were your dauntless guys are. You give them one assist for a 1BD and have a 2+ chance to move that to a 2BD. Thus you reduce the amount of players needed for assists and so forth. Dealing with ST4 guys this is the new tactic: 1 assist + ST3 Dauntless > ST 3 + 2 assists > ST 2 Dauntless + 2 Assists > ST 2 Dauntless + 1 Assist.
The final thought. You are dealing with LOW TV situation. Orcs VS Humans. And the orcs have all their BoB and Troll. You have two options. Lock down the high ST players with Linos and dodge away. Accept a fail, no reroll. Or stand your ground and do not block. If the ST 4+ guys dont have block they fail on a 1/9. So in the above example. The orc coach throws 5 2DB blocks on you lino. Chances are he is going to fail one of them. Burns those rerolls up.
High TV is all about postioning and blitzing. IF you are at high TV and have no guard and/or no dauntless. Then something is wrong. |
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Overhamsteren
Joined: May 27, 2006
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Apr 07, 2012 - 07:30 |
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If you are not elves or ST4+ yourself get some guard!  (btw not saying ST4+ and elves shouldn't take guard)
I find you can stack lines, keep a few reserves to move for assists, blitz to setup more 2d blocks and do one-two dodges/-2d blocks to end the turn. You can do that for a couple of turns but you will get entangled after a couple of turns and barring some luck on the armour/injury dice you are in big trouble without some guard. |
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Cloggy
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
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Apr 07, 2012 - 09:06 |
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I usually just let the high ST guys hit stuff and hunt down whatever else is left. Parking an expendable guy like a lineman next to a big guy, preferrable some distance away from the real action, works like a charm for me.
It depends on what you're playing yourself of course, but for instance letting an unskilled BoB hit a goblin every turn is pretty good tactics IMO. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Apr 07, 2012 - 09:16 |
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| Arktoris wrote: | block em.
-2d is rather good if you have block and the big guy doesn't (or standfirm). this is especially true if you have a reroll.
then clean up with a foul |
Well this works for norse anyway.
The OP has a good point though. These tactics cripple st3/ag3, sometimes to the point that games are pointless.
I think you have to stay pretty fluid. On offence come forward then try to slide to either side, and continue to stay fluid.
Generally when I played norse, I played a lot with a 'scissoring' tactic. Straight forward, then push down one wing, and try to bring two down the other wing. Either they meet up, or the drive gets stop, where you can reverse your drive so that the 2 up top are the front running guys of the new drive...............or if you're totally out manoueverd due to man marking, they're a pass target. One thing you can never do though, is stop. Always keep moving even if its from side to side.
ST 4 man marking, is one of the reasons I prefer dodge over guard on doubles. |
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RC
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
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Apr 07, 2012 - 09:17 |
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I dodge a lot with human and skaven linos to get them 2d. Then I park a lino next to the down st4 dude. Now he will be preoccupied and not move anywhere for a few turns. Even better if you have 2 st4 next to each other down. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Apr 07, 2012 - 09:25 |
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Man marking/parking tactics I believe aren't on with av 7s. Maybe blodging zons, but not for norse, thralls and skaven. |
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Emeyin
Joined: Apr 14, 2008
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Apr 07, 2012 - 09:31 |
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ST3/AG3 players with no access to Guard? What team are you playing? Can't think of a race that fits all 3 of those. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Apr 07, 2012 - 10:26 |
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Humans linemen, Norse Linemen, Amazon women etc.. there are quite a lot of teams with very limited access to Guard and it causes big problems.
Its very hard to say how to deal with them because it is race specific really.
If you are ag4 just ignore them, they are just another player. If you are another team with 4+ st4 players then out block them.
If you are a CPOMB team CPOMB them.
If you are one of the ag3 st3 teams with limited access to guard then it is trickier. But the best way to deal with them, is try and block/blitz them a few times till they are away from the main body of the scrum, then man mark them with a player. Or if they start out of position then just stick a player on them for the half. until you are in a position where you can score or, stop your opponent scoring, then run away from them so they cant get any more free blocks. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Apr 07, 2012 - 16:00 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: | | ST 4 man marking, is one of the reasons I prefer dodge over guard on doubles. |
Now this is a very interesting thing to consider. I will use humans as the template.
Since Humans have 5 guys with guard access is there really a reason to give your linos guard on a double? Blodge is better than guard in the big picture.
I have allways been a subscriber of the double on lino is guard. But I have to say of late Iam starting to lean towards any doubles on a human team beside the catcher/ogre is dodge, allways. |
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Rabe
Joined: Jun 06, 2009
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Apr 07, 2012 - 16:04 |
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Don't forget Fend as a very nice option to free up your (rather) low AG guys! Guard or not, even if knocked over they can usually get into a better position, possibly assisting someone else on a block against one of the stronger opponents!  |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Apr 07, 2012 - 16:39 |
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| PainState wrote: | | harvestmouse wrote: | | ST 4 man marking, is one of the reasons I prefer dodge over guard on doubles. |
Now this is a very interesting thing to consider. I will use humans as the template.
Since Humans have 5 guys with guard access is there really a reason to give your linos guard on a double? Blodge is better than guard in the big picture.
I have allways been a subscriber of the double on lino is guard. But I have to say of late Iam starting to lean towards any doubles on a human team beside the catcher/ogre is dodge, allways. |
Naaa Guard is infinately better. Humans are all St3 except their Big Guy. You need more than those five guards. 5 does sound like a reasonable amount, but your players get hurt very easily in this edition, the Big Guy is not reliable and can find them self tied up if you are not careful and one of your Blitzers will spend most of their time on the floor thanks to PO. Dodge can be useful especially on the BLitzers as they already have the high Ma and Dodge makes them more versatile but the Linemen are just there to support your team (unless they get a nice stat up) and Guard is the best tool for the job.
Humans are one of the weaker teams in the game now. zons are about the same, and only Skaven, Slann, flings, gobos and Underworld have a lower average St. Guard is the only way to mitigate this problem. Because dodging is never reliable with ag3 even with RR and at higher TVs people will have tackle anyway while there is no counter to Guard. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Apr 07, 2012 - 18:37 |
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Not many ST 4s and 5s ever get tackle. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Apr 07, 2012 - 18:39 |
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Yeah Guard all the way on lino doubles. |
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