dode74
Joined: Aug 14, 2009
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 Posted:
Aug 19, 2012 - 22:14 |
 
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| Purplegoo wrote: | | We have all of the x vs y stuff in the racial factor tables anyway, wherever they are. |
Where are they? I don't think they exist here any more. |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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| Posted:
Aug 19, 2012 - 22:35 |
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They'll very likely still exist. Things rarely disappear, links are just removed and webpages redesigned. Where they are I don't know. However, I know a man who will.
I liked them, but not enough to get my knickers in a twist over them! |
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dode74
Joined: Aug 14, 2009
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| Posted:
Aug 19, 2012 - 22:40 |
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If they're not accessible they're not much use really, are they 
There's probably a good reason for that, too - possibly that much of it is based on LRB4 TS data. |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Aug 19, 2012 - 22:47 |
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Perhaps. But perhaps they restarted? Perhaps more than enough games have been played so the 4 stuff has been played out of the numbers? It's almost more fun not knowing. But I bet someone can link them, all of the old stuff that's now in the background pops up in the forum every so often. |
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Shraaaag
Joined: Feb 15, 2004
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| Posted:
Aug 19, 2012 - 22:56 |
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I don't understand, maybe someone can explain, why use 5 dice to represent 5 points, 4 dice to represent 4 points and so on, when 1 die would suffice. Seems like it's a bastardization of two regular ways to show points. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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| Posted:
Aug 19, 2012 - 23:05 |
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@Shraaaag: Some people like numbers. Some people like visualizations. This does both.
@Accuracy issues: Of course this isn't entirely accurate; but if you play say 30 games (which is about how long it took me to realize just how newb I was, and that I needed, badly, to try a few other races just to see the differences between things), then these numbers are going to be at least somewhat meaningful.
They will ALSO give a reasonable guess as to how your opponents will play, because they WILL have many games under their belts in order to achieve their potential. For new players, ESPECIALLY in ranked where they can see their opponent's ahead of time, this will help them predict those opponent's better, and what their game will be, even if it won't entirely predict their own team's play. Considering that a new player can completely misuse a team regardless of that team's strength's, I think this is at least as important as accuracy.
As an example: Imagine I am new, and I start a dwarf team, and my first opponent is elves, and they run circles around me. I might get the wrong idea and think that ball handling is the most important thing, because I lost 8-0 to a ball handling team, and I don't realize just how much it depends on the race I chose. Looking at this chart though, I can see that elves are supposed to do that, and that dwarves never will. If I don't look at the chart right away, and I go on to play a minmax chaos pact team (because i don't undertand what minmax is yet), and I get outbashed to heck (since I'm trying to play a ball game), I finally go to the chart, and I see that Chaos Pact are even more bashy than dwarves, but that dwarves can't ball handle. And hopefully I can adapt my playstyle at this point.
If the chart showed starting/potential, I wouldn't understand that, not truly, as a beginner. I might feel that it referred to TV, and so when I look at Chaos Pact, and see a 3/6 rating under bash, but my TV 1100 dwarves (who have a 6/4 bash rating) just got annhilated by TV 1200 Chaos Pact I'm simply going to not understand at all why I have a 6 and they have a 3. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Aug 19, 2012 - 23:15 |
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I think the dice thing is a good idea, just to give a vague indication. we dont need charts or anything.
Though if it were up to me i would probably have them as bash, finesse and simplicity.
but it really doesnt matter too much. its just a nice little graphic to give a vague indication for a noob. |
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Araushnar
Joined: Jul 17, 2007
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Aug 19, 2012 - 23:35 |
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i like the rating but personally would make it simpler with only 3 instead of 6 points.
For example:
Dwarfs:
Physique: 3
Finesse: 1
Simplicity: 2 |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Aug 19, 2012 - 23:50 |
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6 is better, because there are 6 sides to a dice  |
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dode74
Joined: Aug 14, 2009
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| Posted:
Aug 20, 2012 - 00:21 |
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| Purplegoo wrote: | | Perhaps. But perhaps they restarted? Perhaps more than enough games have been played so the 4 stuff has been played out of the numbers? It's almost more fun not knowing. |
Not really, now
| Quote: | | But I bet someone can link them, all of the old stuff that's now in the background pops up in the forum every so often. |
Would be great if they could, but in the meantime... |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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| Posted:
Aug 23, 2012 - 09:19 |
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| Nelphine wrote: |
@Accuracy issues: Of course this isn't entirely accurate; but if you play say 30 games (which is about how long it took me to realize just how newb I was, and that I needed, badly, to try a few other races just to see the differences between things), then these numbers are going to be at least somewhat meaningful.
They will ALSO give a reasonable guess as to how your opponents will play, because they WILL have many games under their belts in order to achieve their potential. For new players, ESPECIALLY in ranked where they can see their opponent's ahead of time, this will help them predict those opponent's better, and what their game will be, even if it won't entirely predict their own team's play. Considering that a new player can completely misuse a team regardless of that team's strength's, I think this is at least as important as accuracy.
As an example: Imagine I am new, and I start a dwarf team, and my first opponent is elves, and they run circles around me. I might get the wrong idea and think that ball handling is the most important thing, because I lost 8-0 to a ball handling team, and I don't realize just how much it depends on the race I chose. Looking at this chart though, I can see that elves are supposed to do that, and that dwarves never will. If I don't look at the chart right away, and I go on to play a minmax chaos pact team (because i don't undertand what minmax is yet), and I get outbashed to heck (since I'm trying to play a ball game), I finally go to the chart, and I see that Chaos Pact are even more bashy than dwarves, but that dwarves can't ball handle. And hopefully I can adapt my playstyle at this point.
If the chart showed starting/potential, I wouldn't understand that, not truly, as a beginner. I might feel that it referred to TV, and so when I look at Chaos Pact, and see a 3/6 rating under bash, but my TV 1100 dwarves (who have a 6/4 bash rating) just got annhilated by TV 1200 Chaos Pact I'm simply going to not understand at all why I have a 6 and they have a 3. |
I totally agree with the goals. But i beleive for example the amazon score will give a false impression to that newby. He will be angry if someone bashes the hell out of his team with an amazon team. |
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Ullakkomorko
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
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Aug 23, 2012 - 09:42 |
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| bghandras wrote: | | He will be angry if someone bashes the hell out of his team with an amazon team. |
Or halflings, but that happens too. |
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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| Posted:
Aug 23, 2012 - 10:05 |
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I think many new people will also find it informative to know what their team is capable of developing towards. |
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SzieberthAdam
Joined: Aug 31, 2008
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| Posted:
Aug 23, 2012 - 10:21 |
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I would like to point out that Christer also asked for quotes for each race. Besides, the race weights are all good for me, so I don't interested in finetuning them...
Let me summarize the posted ones so far:
The_Murker:
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ORCS: Smash until a path to the endzone is clear. If that fails, throw a goblin.
HUMANS: Be adaptable. If the enemy is softer, hit hard. If the enemy is slow, move quickly around him.
Garion:
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OGRES: So bad they aren't even funny.
DatMonsta:
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CHAOS: Play as many games as you need until you discover the uber-combo to slaughter all opponents.
I also posted three in my part since I don't have the experience with all the races to write quotes for more. Here they are:
Well, coaching Nachthafen Sleepers is quite challenging, since not only the enemy, but also my precious vampires decimate the weak thrall linemen. -- Theodor Walden
Human is the most versatile team on the football pitch. They have the strength, the agility, and also the speed to beat anyone they face. -- From the Human Manual
Keep good positioning with zombies and golems, bash with wights, make ghouls do the ballplay. Careful with werevolves (key players!!!). They can do all the jobs better than the rest. They WIN matches. -- Noted by a student of Altdorf University of Sport
I hope you guys came up with good quotes. I would like to read them. |
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Overhamsteren
Joined: May 27, 2006
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| Posted:
Aug 23, 2012 - 10:49 |
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Ogres: Often undone by their own incompetence but on a good day the ogres will dominate the field and the snotlings dance like butterflies. Can't beat elfs. |
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Like a Tiger Defying the Laws of Gravity
Thanks to the BBRC for all the great work you did. |
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