Badoek
Joined: May 17, 2009
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 Posted:
Jan 23, 2014 - 10:30 |
 
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Currently HUBBA Bowl V is running and we're using a spiked ball alongside the "extra rules" that are in place for the regular season (sneaky git buff, PO nerf, Right Stuff buff and foul buff).
In the first game I started to wonder if I should have tried to catch the kick-off with my Ghoul when I could (High Kick).
In case you don't know: a failed catch results in a stab attempt. And as we all know stab works pretty decently against AV7 but gets quite unlikely at higher AVs.
Several things I considered:
Catching a Kick-Off vs picking up the ball.
If you catch it, it can save you quite some movement and win you one or more turns worth of actions (both move and picking up). Trying to catch it is more dangerous than picking it up
High Kick player selection
My usual ball-carriers (Necromantic) are my ghouls. They're AV7 though and only have AG3. One has Sure Hands so that makes picking it up later much safer. They've got good movement too so having to move back to pick up the ball doesn't hurt that much. Alternatively I could choose a Wight or Werewolf to try to catch the ball. Both have AG3 but no Sure Hands. They've got AV8 so the stab is more unlikely to succeed.
In the second game I forewent the High Kick but I wondered if I was being too much of a wuss. What would you do? Try to catch it no matter where it lands, using the SH Ghoul, use a higher AV player, forego the High Kick or as usual it all depends on the circumstances (in this case: location of the ball)?
And what about other teams? Use the AV9 Lineorc? AV7 skaven Thrower? Etc.
No Poll because I guess there's too many options.
edit: SH comment fixed, tnx Roland. I blame wolves not having Catch. |
Last edited by Badoek on %b %23, %2014 - %10:%Jan; edited 3 times in total |
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Roland
Joined: May 12, 2004
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Jan 23, 2014 - 10:46 |
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SH doesn't help catching.
Anyway, I always forget the spikes and catch as usual. 
Would be great with some kind of reminder (icon?).
Spikes is not fun playing khemri also.
Blodge doesn't matter when Ag2 Av7...
However, I would probably try to catch with a higher av player yes. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jan 23, 2014 - 10:51 |
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I never try and catch the spiked ball from kick off with anything av7, that's just asking for trouble. Av8 or better I would risk it but I wouldn't use one of my better player, a rookie or 1 skill player would suffice.
Though if I was playing against an elf team with strip ball I would just let the ball land and pick it up with my Sure Hands player. It is a tricky one though I agree. Sometimes you just have to try and catch it and take the hit. |
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Badoek
Joined: May 17, 2009
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Jan 23, 2014 - 10:55 |
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Hadn't thought about Khemri. Spiked Ball must be horrible! You should get yourself a +AG blitzer asap  |
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Roland
Joined: May 12, 2004
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Jan 23, 2014 - 11:00 |
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| Badoek wrote: | | Hadn't thought about Khemri. Spiked Ball must be horrible! You should get yourself a +AG blitzer asap |
working on it  |
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Smeat
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
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Jan 23, 2014 - 22:26 |
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| Badoek wrote: | ...we're using a spiked ball...
...In case you don't know: a failed catch results in a stab attempt... |
On any failed catch or pickup attempt, right? I looked for an on-site list of optional League rules, but I could only find it on a "Card" in the CRP (one that is not implemented in the client).
| Badoek wrote: | | And as we all know stab works pretty decently against AV7 but gets quite unlikely at higher AVs. |
Actually, not all that less likely - 28% v. 42%, which is certainly better, but still...
The math... (~math warning!~)...
o Ag 3 w/ a kickoff is a 4+ roll (not "accurate", so +0 modifier), or 50% to fail (and activate the Spikes effect).
o A Stab to break AV 7 is ~42%.
So an AV 7, Ag 3 player will...o catch it exactly 50% of the time
o simply drop it about 29%
o suck on a Stab about 21%, or (slightly better than) 1/5 of the time
On those 1/5 of attempts, the best a Stab can result in is a Stun (~58% of the time), and the rest sends him off the field.
For me, a 21% chance for my ballhandler to both drop the ball and be Stunned (or worse!!!) is a dealbreaker. With MA 7, I'd just ignore the High Kick and go for the move and the Sure Hands pick up.*
(* with a LOT of support/screening!)
| Badoek wrote: | | Several things I considered:... |
Well, since a High Kick happens 1/9 (on a 5, 4/36, = ~11%) of the time, have you considered giving one of your ghouls Catch? Catch also helps on hand-offs, as well as receiving a pass, so this ghoul would become your "go-to" guy if/when the Sure Hands ballhandler had to get rid of it for any reason.
Normally, a ghoul w/ Catch might be a skill wasted, but with a Spiked Ball that means that any ball exchange is dangerous to the player receiving the ball, so for 1/9 of kickoffs he's your guy, and on the other 8/9ths this gives you a significantly safer outlet option. Like Dump-off, it might take some slightly diff tactics, but it might also be a game saver (or at least a player-saver).
Alternately, since it's only 1/9 of the time, just suck it up and ignore that kickoff result when it happens. |
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(...and what exactly do you think they do with all those dead players?...) |
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Humbaba
Joined: Jan 14, 2014
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Jan 23, 2014 - 22:41 |
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In your situation I would of probably used the rookie wight. Same chance to catch it and if he does catch it it helps him get to his first skill faster. If he does drop it he is more likely to survive the stab and since he is a rookie losing him isn't nearly the blow losing your primary ball carrier would be. |
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Smeat
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
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Jan 23, 2014 - 22:52 |
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@ Humbaba -
AV 8 simply becomes a 1/7 (~14%) instead of 1/5 chance to both drop the ball and have your chosen ballhandler Stunned or worse.
The problem is this is a League team. "Losing him", even to just a Stun, means that's a kickoff that is now lying on the ground and you're starting a man down, like volunteering for a Thrown Rock. Every game counts, usually no time for "builder" games or risking the defensive score.
Otoh, with a Spiked Ball, "handing off" for the score to skill other players becomes a MUCH more risky proposition no matter what, so maybe a Coach doesn't care as much. You try to catch it w/ AV 8, and if/when he fails the standard Sure Hands ballcarrier is still centered to pickup the dropped ball as if nothing had happened.
Me, I'd always want to use my primary (blodge/ss) ballhandler until the ball is safely behind a screen within scoring range, then make that handoff, so my Sure Hands can pick it up and score next turn if/when the intended player dies or whatever.  |
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(...and what exactly do you think they do with all those dead players?...) |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Jan 23, 2014 - 23:19 |
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Down in the KPL we had 2 players killed by the BALL!!!!! this last season. |
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Comish of the: 
Last edited by PainState on %b %23, %2014 - %23:%Jan; edited 1 time in total |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jan 23, 2014 - 23:19 |
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| Smeat wrote: | | Badoek wrote: | ...we're using a spiked ball...
...In case you don't know: a failed catch results in a stab attempt... |
On any failed catch or pickup attempt, right? I looked for an on-site list of optional League rules, but I could only find it on a "Card" in the CRP [i](one that is not implemented in the client) |
Spiked ball is an optional league rule on fumbbl, a house rule, and it is switched on in the cup tournament in question. |
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Smeat
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
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Jan 24, 2014 - 00:06 |
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| Garion wrote: | | Spiked ball is an optional league rule on fumbbl, a house rule, and it is switched on in the cup tournament in question. |
Is there somewhere that these options are (publicly) defined as implemented by the client? |
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Let's go A.P.E.!
(...and what exactly do you think they do with all those dead players?...) |
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Humbaba
Joined: Jan 14, 2014
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Jan 24, 2014 - 00:09 |
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@Smeat
That is all true. League games are something I just don't have experience with as before joining here last week Id discovered the game through Cyanide. Also that %14 is a bit high even if its not quite as bad.
You changed my mind. I would probably make ignoring the high kick my base decision with game situation sometimes dictating changes. |
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Smeat
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
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Jan 24, 2014 - 00:16 |
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| PainState wrote: | | Down in the KPL we had 2 players killed by the BALL!!!!! this last season. |
In my mind, I can so easily picture an unlucky ruck for a loose ball where every player that tries to pick it up keeps getting Cas'd off the field, one after another.
Oh, joy beyond words.  |
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Let's go A.P.E.!
(...and what exactly do you think they do with all those dead players?...) |
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cthol
Joined: Nov 10, 2003
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Jan 24, 2014 - 00:47 |
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What if you had an elf catcher with AG5 and diving catch... And you stand him next to an opposing halfling... Then throw the ball to (at) the fling. The elf's tacklezone puts him off catching, the spikes kill him and your diving catch elf snags the ball from the adjacent square.
Gotta be worth a shot anyway  |
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Naru1981
Joined: Jan 01, 2009
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Jan 24, 2014 - 01:18 |
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@Smeat.
My plan this season in KPL was to PASS the spiked ball into the crowd of opposing players.
unfortunately though there is a bug. Only first or last player (can't remember which) who tries and fails to catch gets stabbed. |
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