licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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Feb 14, 2017 - 17:09 |
 
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I honestly don't think most people are really that upset about the price, though of course they would like it to be lower.
They don't like the practice of releasing incomplete products and then asking the customer to keep on paying for content which 'should' (''s because this is subjective) have been part of the original.
Now, the races as DLC makes perfect sense to me, it's just not what anyone from FUMBBL would expect, but honestly, you cannot use FUMBBL as a comparison for the products cyanide has released, at least not in the sense of value.
The issue is with the additional content and if it is included for free for BB2 owners so the only real benefit from LE are the races (note, I will likely get the LE upgrade anyway, but money is just not a concern for me).
Now I have heard conflicting information on what will be included for free to BB2 owners. We may well get everything LE gets (though I doubt this from a conversation with Netheos...). But that's the area where I feel as though taking a stand on principle is meaningful.
Because that is where they are making the LE version differentiated from the BB2 version in a manner I do not agree with.
And yes I know 'how these things work', I just don't like how they work, and think that consumers are getting screwed more and more in the PC game market, but it's entirely our fault for allowing it to happen. More the fault of the apologists who just 'don't think it's a big deal', but our fault none the less. |
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Zlefin
Joined: Apr 14, 2005
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Feb 24, 2017 - 18:44 |
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how is the ai in it these days? I remember hearing long ago that the cyanide ai was quite poor at playing.
Wish we could play vs ai's on fumbbl, though that would probably overtax the servers, would have to have all the ai processing be done elsewhere. |
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Jeffthejar
Joined: Aug 31, 2011
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Feb 24, 2017 - 18:58 |
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Currently the AI is god awful in BB2. Not even worth playing against, even as a new player, I would say.
They say that the AI will be improved when LE comes out (at least that is the plan). |
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Domfluff
Joined: Dec 23, 2016
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Feb 28, 2017 - 14:39 |
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The AI is bad, but it can serve a purpose - it's not a bad way to learn the rules (which presumably isn't really applicable to someone posting on the Fumbbl forum), and it's not bad at giving you an idea how an unfamiliar team will skill up and develop after a couple of games.
It's nowhere near as bad as it was in BB1, which is something I suppose.
Regardless of any AI improvements, having the ability to create/edit teams at the fine level will also be an advantage. Putting a tournament team into the game and playing a few turns sounds reasonable to me. |
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Christer
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Zlefin wrote: | | Wish we could play vs ai's on fumbbl, though that would probably overtax the servers, would have to have all the ai processing be done elsewhere. |
I don't think it would need to be all that stressful on the servers. Other games do AI in real time contexts (e.g. any modern RTS such as Starcraft 2), and BB isn't all that much more complex than a typical RTS. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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Feb 28, 2017 - 16:47 |
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| Jeffthejar wrote: | | Currently the AI is god awful in BB2. Not even worth playing against, even as a new player, I would say. |
This depends on what your goals and expectations are. If you really have never played BB before, then playing a season or two in a solo league may be worth it just to get a better understanding of the rules and the UI.
However, if you model your play at all off of the AI, once you get to MP you will have learned some bad habits and will get crushed. If you do some reading/youtubing on tactics and strategies and wind up able to beat the AI by scores of 3-0 or worse every single time (if you let the AI score on you you have failed miserably) then you are probably in a better place to jump to MP.
Of course some of us in our bored time like to play the AI with our own special rules in place  For example I've played a lizard team where skinks are never allowed to touch the ball. Literally, I have to make sure that it cannot even scatter to them. Kick off is the only unfortunate exception I have to allow myself.
I mean you could play that MP too, but I usually don't like facing 'joke' teams myself because it's not a real game, even if it is an opportunity to farm some spp, it's still not really that interesting to me.
| Jeffthejar wrote: | | They say that the AI will be improved when LE comes out (at least that is the plan). |
I've seen this...
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AI enhancement
The AI will now takes into account the current turn of the game (and not cross the pitch with dwarfs at turn 16). |
Which is an improvement, but ehh... if you're even giving the AI the chance to do anything either nuffle has screwed you pretty hard or this enhancement is meaningless. It could also be an unenhancement if it makes the AI do a worse job at protecting the ball than it already does.
But that's a digression, the AI needs to be opened to the community for modders to play with, that's about the only way there would ever be a somewhat decent AI. |
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Jeffthejar
Joined: Aug 31, 2011
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Feb 28, 2017 - 16:58 |
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A good point, Licker; as long as you know what you're getting into, the AI certainly has a use. But, like you say, if you are not sure what the game is about, mess around in single-player AI too much, and then go off into MP without really knowing what you're doing, it is not gonna be a good time for that coach.
Hmm.. I also like your joke teams you play vs. AI. I might have to make a ball-carrier TG khermi team now |
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Zlefin
Joined: Apr 14, 2005
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Feb 28, 2017 - 19:11 |
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| Christer wrote: | | Zlefin wrote: | | Wish we could play vs ai's on fumbbl, though that would probably overtax the servers, would have to have all the ai processing be done elsewhere. |
I don't think it would need to be all that stressful on the servers. Other games do AI in real time contexts (e.g. any modern RTS such as Starcraft 2), and BB isn't all that much more complex than a typical RTS. |
hmmm, maybe not. been awhile since I looked at ai run times. I guess it'd depend a lot on how often people played vs the ai, how fast it took its turns, and how it uses its time. You can always of course hvae an ai spend more time thinking, but it's not always that useful to do so, depending on the situations involved.
well, until we have an interface to make such an ai the question is moot, and is a rather low priority. |
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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Feb 28, 2017 - 20:26 |
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| Jeffthejar wrote: | if you are not sure what the game is about, mess around in single-player AI too much, and then go off into MP without really knowing what you're doing, it is not gonna be a good time for that coach.
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Yep, that describes my first games on fumbbl. Was still a good time, but the BB1 AI had certainly taught me some bad habits. I got surfed soooo much. =) |
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