Opponent abandons a game, creates a new team, and plays
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 Next |
MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
|
 Posted:
Sep 02, 2019 - 16:50 |
 
|
I'm a consequence of the problem caused by the leaver and lack of concession button.
Otherwise, I would have just waited for 3 days in silence to get the concession as per site rules before the button broke.
I'm the victim, I have the right to complain. |
|
|
Harad
Joined: May 11, 2014
|
| Posted:
Sep 02, 2019 - 16:54 |
|
‘Where there’s blame there’s a claim.’
Look bigger picture Matt given your ability at Blood Bowl you should be smarter than this. |
|
|
MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
|
| Posted:
Sep 02, 2019 - 16:58 |
|
I don't find smart to allow leavers to abandon games with impunity, especially because they could leave another game in the future.
That happens more likely if they can do it with no consequence. |
|
|
badger89
Joined: Jun 03, 2014
|
| Posted:
Sep 02, 2019 - 17:06 |
|
Matt think up upset him by saying "you must have 90 minutes to play a game" Thing in real life pop you and do not have 90 mins to play the game so I think a better question to ask is "sure how long to you need?" |
_________________
 |
|
Harad
Joined: May 11, 2014
|
| Posted:
Sep 02, 2019 - 17:10 |
|
Ok, one last time. Please don’t respond, just think.
We know this is very rare. So the problem is not rife. So the risk that we lose people from the site through over officious behaviour is far higher than the risk that we end up with lots of games being abandoned. If the problem of abandonment becomes more regular the measures taken can be made more extreme.
The admin behaviour has clearly helped them stick around and play more games, as you said they played another one.
Nobody is allowing people to abandon with impunity they just are doing their job in a subtler and smarter way than forcing a concession at the first whiff of trouble.
What is best for the site and what is best for Matt may not be the same thing. |
|
|
MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
|
| Posted:
Sep 02, 2019 - 17:11 |
|
He just left the game, no schedule provided by him, not even when I offered him via PM (2 days so far, enough time to reply at least, if not to finish the game).
About chance of abandoned games:
if abandoning a game is rare, and we need numbers to make it a big enough problem before tackling it, then I can start to abandon games with you Harad, and other guys, no problem.
After all it's a not big issue, right? Let's make it a big issue, then! 
Matt is part of the site, and he plays quite often in the Box, so there is some correlation between site and Matt.
Experience suggests that he's going to play in the future more than a 31-games-in-2-years coach.
Don't think of Matt as a coach, think of him in terms of "volume of games" he could provide to the site. |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %02, %2019 - %17:%Sep; edited 1 time in total |
|
Harad
Joined: May 11, 2014
|
| Posted:
Sep 02, 2019 - 17:18 |
|
I said that was the last I would engage and I mean it. I don’t have time to deal with stupidity. Please abandon all future games with me. |
|
|
MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
|
| Posted:
Sep 02, 2019 - 17:21 |
|
It was a provocation. I'm against abandoning games on principle. |
|
|
Christer
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
Ok, so I'll admit that I don't really know how to formulate an answer to this. If we had "community managers" or a PR department the answer would be something to the effect of an apology for the inconvenience and that the issue would be looked into or brought up with the developer team or whatever.
Obviously, we don't have that and I am not intending to build a team like that either. Instead, let me simply bring up some generic points about how staffing this site works and give some direct responses to some of the stuff in this thread.
First off: This is a site and community that's created and run by volunteers. When I formed the league that turned into FUMBBL way back in 2002 I never imagined it'd grow to what it is today. I simply wanted to play the game using a client that I felt was far better than anything else that was available at the time. I never imagined how much time and effort I'd end up having to spend on formalizing rules and dealing with issues like the one in this thread.
The rules on the site could be summarized as "play nice" but because some people simply need more guidance to what this means the rules have developed to what they are today. The core guiding principle and question I ask myself when writing new rules or updating them is "What is best for the community as a whole?". While this often aligns well with the opponent of someone who does something bad, there are cases where that's not the same. The rules as written sometimes disappoint players who have done nothing wrong because I genuinely believe it's better for the site as a whole. It's simply not possible to have rules that always makes everyone happy.
Now, let me back up a bit to the part about dealing with tickets and rules issues. This is *by far* the worst part of running the site. It honestly sucks to have to tell people that "I don't believe you" when someone says they're in fact not the brother of someone who just got their account locked. It sucks to talk to someone for multiple hours to explain a decision that was made when they're being abusive towards you.
It sucks to read things like "Site rules enforcement is really a joke on FUMBBL.", knowing that's simply not true. The thing here is that there's no way for me to prove that, because the site has a policy to not share what's being said between a staff member and coaches involved in a rules issue.
You have to understand that all staff members on the site are helping out because they love the site, because they feel that they want to contribute in order to keep this place running. I have nothing bud admiration to the people who do because I know what they have to deal with. It's an endless series of "he said, she said" to deal with and occasionally there's this one person who is so self-entitled that they simply cannot understand that a ruling didn't go their way.
I personally actively try to avoid anything but the most simple tickets for two primary reasons. First, it protects me from a fair chunk of direct negativity which would be very demotivating for me to continue work on the site (which I'm sure few people want). Second, and more importantly, it gives people who feel a staff member made a mistake with a ticket an avenue to have someone revisit a decision. Clearly, this means that I end up with the multiple-hour long conversations with people who are upset for whatever reason. Or I end up sitting down and writing a forum post like this.
Do I enjoy that? No. It sucks too, because most of the time the decision simply won't be reversed. But it needs to be done, so I do.
With that covered, let me get into some specifics from the thread.
MattDakka, you have a very aggressively entitled personality. This thread, and the previous incident, were phrased in a very demanding way. "I demand that you do this". When things have been explained to you by a staff member, you say "this is unacceptable" and keep ranting about how you demand that X is done.
You're yet again bringing up an issue from the end of last year, which I was personally dragged into.
You're saying "I will let it go when I have the DE team record fixed (+1 Win entry with relative CR gain).". Let me be absolutely crystal clear here:
That will never happen.
Why? Two reasons: First, it involves me manually adding a fake match to the site which is risky. Second, you're being a spoiled brat about it and have zero regard for the fact that staff are people as well. You've shown absolutely zero respect for the work the staff puts in and can't even stretch to be polite. Unprofessional? You be the judge. I have zero interest in going out of my way to help someone with an attitude like yours.
Another tidbit you posted is "Then, I reserve to myself the right to abandon games, if this is how things are handled".
Again, let me be crystal clear: I have permanently banned people in the past who deliberately break rules like that. There's an enormous difference between someone new making a mistake and someone who's been around for a while breaking a rule deliberately. If you want to rules lawyer this, there is a specific part of the rules page that is there to give staff members leeway to adjust things to suit the circumstances:
"The administration reserves the right to overrule anything listed here in any specific case if deemed appropriate."
The thing here is, Matt: You are being careful to not break site rules explicitly. That's all well and good. However, you're acting in a way that's arguably toxic (google "toxic personalities" for more info on this). To me, that's a tricky issue because if that continues endlessly, I will need to make a decision as to whether the toxicity is bad for the site and the overall community. Without beating around the bush here, that would mean asking you to leave the site. I truly don't want to do that, but if that's what it comes down to I will.
I would have ended here, but I see that there's more stuff in the thread:
"I'm the victim, I have the right to complain."
Yes, you have a right to complain. What you do not have, though, is a right to demand things from the staff. Also be aware that I have a right to ask you to leave if I feel that you are not the type of person I want to have around in my proverbial house, playing with my proverbial toys.
Another tidbit: "Let's make it a big issue, then!"
See, this is exactly the type of thing that is completely unnecessary. I explained above what the end result of that would be.
And finally:
"Matt is part of the site, and he plays quite often in the Box, so there is some correlation between site and Matt.
Experience suggests that he's going to play in the future more than a 31-games-in-2-years coach.
Don't think of Matt as a coach, think of him in terms of "volume of games" he could provide to the site."
The first point is obvious. Anyone with an account on the site will inevitably generate some correlation. That's a non-statement but sure. I agree.
The second point is probable, assuming you don't do something stupid like start breaking the site rules on purpose, in which case you'd be more like 0 games in 2 years.
The third point here is important though.
I don't consider "volume of games" an important metric. Someone who plays 500 games in a year isn't worth more than someone who plays a match every other weekend. I have deep respect for the people who run leagues, draw logos for others, help out with bbcode queries or just answer questions on the forums. These are the people who make the community we have here great and in turn make newcomers feel welcome to the site.
We clearly need a certain number of games on the site, but you have to remember where we come from: A single league run by me where maybe 20 people were playing a match per week. I obviously think it's great that there's a lot of people playing on the site, and having a few people who play alot certainly helps that. But quality is much more important than quality and if I'm required to cut someone from the site for being toxic to the community as a whole I will, regardless of if that means that we lose 50 games per week. If people genuinely dislike playing against you, more games played by you will impact the site negatively.
I'll end this post by saying that I have no great hope that you (MattDakka) will internalize what I've said and rethink how you act and express yourself here but would be overjoyed if you actually took a step back and looked at it from my perspective. Unfortunately, I figure there's a more than 50% chance you'll simply lash out yet again at some very specific thing I've written here so far instead of trying to understand the point.
I've written this post mostly to give somewhat of an insight into how things are from my (and maybe staff) perspective. Some of you may have some interest in how I think about the site and my relationship with it. |
|
|
MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
|
| Posted:
Sep 02, 2019 - 18:15 |
|
Thanks for the insight!
So, may I politely and humbly ask how will this particular incident be handled? 7 days then game cancelled or will the coach be persuaded to finish it properly (favourite solution)?
By the way, I think there is some prejudice about me, (nevermind), because in this particular case I was welcoming with the new coach: "Hi good luck have fun!" yet he was silent through the game, until he suddenly declared we would have finished the game another day and left.
Also, I offered politely via PM to schedule the game another day.
If this is toxic and not welcoming then yes I'm toxic and not welcoming. |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %02, %2019 - %18:%Sep; edited 1 time in total |
|
MenonaLoco
Joined: Jan 05, 2016
|
| Posted:
Sep 02, 2019 - 18:17 |
|
"I'm a consequence of the problem caused by the leaver and lack of concession button." hmmm I thought you were the consequence of your parents' "interaction"...  |
|
|
MenonaLoco
Joined: Jan 05, 2016
|
| Posted:
Sep 02, 2019 - 18:19 |
|
"So, may I politely and humbly ask how will this particular incident be handled? 7 days then game cancelled or will the coach be persuaded to finish it properly?"
Site policy doesn't allow you to get this information. Period. Let it go. Trust. Wait. Hakuna Matata. |
|
|
MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
|
| Posted:
Sep 02, 2019 - 18:21 |
|
| MenonaLoco wrote: | | "I'm a consequence of the problem caused by the leaver and lack of concession button." hmmm I thought you were the consequence of your parents' "interaction"... |
Yes, I should have written: "My aggressive behaviour is a consequence of the leaver and lack of concession button".
My bad, poorly wording. |
|
|
koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
|
| Posted:
Sep 02, 2019 - 18:24 |
|
|
MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
|
| Posted:
Sep 02, 2019 - 18:27 |
|
It happened again 2 days ago, to be accurate, on Saturday 31st August. |
|
|
|
|
| |
Gnome Roster - how a...
Search
