MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jun 18, 2020 - 01:16 |
 
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That could work too, but I suggested the Throw-in template because there is more control on the direction, thus increasing the chance of attacking somebody (otherwise the skill should be called Wild Wanderer  ).
The total random movement with the d8 could not be a big drawback if the Minotaur were close to few team mates. The risk of hitting them would be big only in case of a scrum.
I suggested MA 3 as example but halving the movement is nice too. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Jun 18, 2020 - 01:59 |
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| Frowny wrote: |
I'm surprised at how many people are resistant to change. Even my most aggressive proposal (probably juggernaut), is still far weaker than most of the tier 1 skills, and at best might be like wrestle. Moreover, Most of the rationale seems to be opposed to change rather than problems with any specific ones opposed. For example, maybe juggernaut would be strong enough to be picked early. Is that a bad thing? I think it might be better. |
The game is now pretty good. Minor changes can be made as house rules or "thought experiments".
Different people have different ideas on what they would change but there is not much of a compelling argument for making many changes to the core ruleset.
Most arguments come down to "I'd prefer it a bit more like this". Well... Other people don't. |
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mekutata
Joined: May 03, 2015
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Jun 18, 2020 - 08:54 |
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| MattDakka wrote: |
The issues are that GW doesn't care about balance (game designers are clueless, they don't even play the game as much as Legend coaches do) |
I told you so already in a personal chat discussion. But I think this "Legend" status does not matter at all when it comes to designing the game. It just means you never fielded a Chaos Dwarf team with only Hobgoblins :p
Having played 4626 games is a better argument 
And also unbalance is a way of balance.. like many modern games are now focused on asymmetric gaming experiences. It makes sense to play one weaker team when you face someone who does not know the game yet, or to play basic races Humans and Orcs when starting while Vamps will imply you already have a better understanding of what goes on the pitch.
| koadah wrote: |
Most arguments come down to "I'd prefer it a bit more like this". Well... Other people don't. |
Good point, and it is actually a testament of Blood Bowl's quality to combine so many different races with different playstyles that Coaches with different taste can still find something fun to play with. Still always fun to read what people ponder... and maybe find enough Coaches to try House Rules.
But pragmatically in Fumbbl you won't be able to change the skills anyway (unless Christer falls in love with one of your suggestions).
You can realistically set up a league with different ruleset where you forbid some skills and bring in some older optional variations (Stand Firm Dodge, Sneaky Git Variations, Pile On Rule Set) and change parameters regarding inducements and team management. And then try to find enough Coaches to play with those. |
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stej
Joined: Jan 05, 2009
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Jun 18, 2020 - 10:14 |
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Does some of the asymetric balancing come from the random nature of the dice rolls?
Any player can do anything successfully if the dice are in favour. Similarly, the best most skilled player can fail due to luck. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jun 18, 2020 - 12:34 |
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If you want to go easy with a new coach you don't need to play a tier 3 weak team by design, you can play a top tier team with some handicaps, for example Undead with 0 rrs or with just 1 Ghoul or 1 Mummy.
Designing rosters that are going to lose most of times will mean they will not be played, unless there is some reason to do it (masochism or Box Trophy, for example).
I very rarely face Ogres, Goblins, Halflings in the Box. Ogres and Goblins became a little more common after the last change to their roster (Runt Punter, Disposable and Doom Diver). That seems to show that improving teams encourages people to play them. Sure, some people just want to test the changes and then stop playing, but I don't think it's a crime trying to improve the balance among the various rosters, because the racial variety will be improved.
It's really boring to face mostly Chaos or Nurgle if you dare to play at high TV, and not just due to the bash (which has been nerfed with new PO), but because there is less racial variety. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Jun 18, 2020 - 13:05 |
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@Matt: House rules, house rules, house rules.
You appear to be mainly talking about the Box, which is a specific league.
e.g. With a rule that there are no seasons.
I had a quick look at a league that I used to play in.
They do not appear to be overrun by chaos & Nurgle at the top end.
So, Ogres, Goblins, Halflings are terrible in the Box. That doesn't mean that they should be strengthened for everyone. If you decide to strengthen them, people will disagree on how much.
Tier one Ogres, Goblins, Halflings might be a good thing in the Box. People would still want regular Ogres, Goblins, Halflings too, if only to show how hardcore they are.
IMO the fluff would suggest that the stunty teams should be crap. How good would you expect a bunch of halflings to be?
For the most part, I agree with you Matt. But the rules are fine IMO. Fixes should be on a league by league basis. (Now that they've nerfed CPOMB )
If it was down to me, I'd have more strong races in Secret League though. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Jun 18, 2020 - 13:22 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | Designing rosters that are going to lose most of times will mean they will not be played, unless there is some reason to do it (masochism or Box Trophy, for example). |
God forbid FUN  |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jun 18, 2020 - 14:27 |
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Adding Stunty positionals with Sure Hands would not suddenly make Halflings, Ogres or Goblins OP.
Sure, in the fluff they are crap, but that doesn't mean you can't buff them with roster changes.
For example, Halflings could have a rostered Chef and Goblins 0-2 rostered bribes and Trolls without Loner. The Halfling players on the pitch would be crap, yes, but at least the opponent team would play with fewer rrs, there are many ways to buff a team, not just by buffing directly the players, but adding some roster special features (which add flavour to that roster).
There could be a 10 TV discount for skills on Halflings, Goblins and Gnoblars, Treemen could unroot by rolling a 6 at the end of the turn, Halflings could have a 0-1 Pie Thrower (akin to Cindy Piewhistle).
The problem of creating a League with custom ruleset is you need other coaches, you can create a League but not coaches. |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %18, %2020 - %18:%Jun; edited 3 times in total |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Jun 18, 2020 - 15:55 |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jun 18, 2020 - 16:00 |
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League division, if I'm not wrong, is the division where NAF tournaments are played, that increases the number of games played (especially due to recent outbreak).
My rules need to be implemented in the client (or having real life opponents to play tabletop games with), they are not simple roster changes.
Also, quantity doesn't necessarily equal quality. |
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Frowny
Joined: Apr 27, 2020
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Jun 18, 2020 - 16:57 |
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I totally do not understand the perspective that any changes would be the worse for the game.
I totally fail to see how +1 to shadowing would be anything but minor, flavorful and good. Even if it were automatic, it would still not be picked until maybe the 4th skill on a few players. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jun 18, 2020 - 18:37 |
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| JanMattys wrote: | | MattDakka wrote: | | Designing rosters that are going to lose most of times will mean they will not be played, unless there is some reason to do it (masochism or Box Trophy, for example). |
God forbid FUN |
I've missed you...
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Jun 18, 2020 - 19:01 |
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| Frowny wrote: | | I totally do not understand the perspective that any changes would be the worse for the game. |
It is not ANY changes. But changes need to be compelling enough to get support.
Is anyone volunteering to do some rigorous testing to reduce the chances that they will be worse for the game?
In reality, so many people have so many different ways to play the game and like it for different reasons.
So, yeah. Pretty much any change will make the game worse for someone. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Jun 18, 2020 - 20:32 |
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hehe, koadah, you know I'm trying to get people to test my theories. So here's hoping I can find people! |
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MarckusOfCamlan
Joined: Jul 20, 2017
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Jun 19, 2020 - 01:00 |
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I recently discovered how easy it is to create your own league and the possibility to set the rules and to change the roosters. I find it very very cool, and the perfect place to test different ruleset.
I did a test here (but team creation has too much cash):
https://fumbbl.com/p/group?op=view&group=12894
However, I'm still surprised less people play secret leagues teams than regular one. I like diversity and it let me think others prefer the norm... therefore it might doom the test to be failures. |
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