FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Joined: Jul 15, 2007

Posted: Apr 05, 2023 - 10:03

OWA was one of the best teams in BBT6, clearly better than humans. Yaquestay won a minor with them and tussock took them to the FC quarterfinals. So the roster is pretty good, possibly better than it looks somehow. Fwiw, Yaquestay used Dwarf Blockers, tussock did not.

I like them because they provide high AV as rookies, which makes them more valuable to OWA than to Dwarves, and because they give easy access to guard, which nobody outside the big guy will be getting as the Trollslayer and the human Blitzer look at MB.

They may be overpriced in 101 comparisons, but making the OWA roster cheaper on a whole seems unwarranted looking at their successes I mentioned.

Sp00keh

Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Posted: Apr 05, 2023 - 10:12

JackassRampant wrote:

ph0enyx13 wrote:

you are just a human

fify

Catalyst32

Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Posted: Apr 05, 2023 - 11:51

How do Brawler and Arm Bar work in game? What happens in the Client?

Are they a potential nuisance that might make already agitated opponents MORE agitated?
That might be reason enough to have them

How would you SKILL them? Same as most Chorfs and Dorf Blockers (aka Dorkers)?

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Apr 05, 2023 - 12:42

Brawler allows to reroll a single Both Down result from the pool of block dice. Cannot be used on a Blitz Action.
Whenever a Both Down result is rolled in a Block Action, the client asks if you want to reroll it. You can't use Brawler to reroll a Both Down result and then use a Team Re-Roll. Either Brawler (for single Both Down result) or Team Re-Roll (to reroll the whole pool of block dice).

Arm Bar: if an opposition player Falls Over as the result of failing their Agility test when attempting to Dodge, Jump or Leap out of a square in which they were being Marked by this player, you may apply +1 modifier to either Armor roll or Injury roll. This modifier may be applied after the roll has been made and may be applied even if this player is now Prone. If the opposition player was being Marked by more than one player with this Skill, only one player may use it.

I played vs Arm Bar, the impact on the moves you do is low.
I can think twice before trying a dodge from Arm Bar (especially if it's a 3+ or higher and the player has AV 8+ or lower) but generally speaking it doesn't make a big difference. If you have just 1 player marked by an Arm Bar player is not a big deal. If you have 3 or more players then it's different, but you could just blitz away the Arm Bar player.

About skilling them: I'd take Block, Guard, Mighty Blow and then skills such as Pro (because of Loner 3+), Tackle, Stand Firm, Dauntless.
Block, Guard, Mighty Blow are core skills in my opinion.

ClayInfinity

Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Posted: Apr 06, 2023 - 00:58

I like the OWA team, I think they're hard to beat. Use the treeman and you have a great defensive team. The Blockers I use as either LoS high AV guys or out wide to threaten catcher types. I had two Arm Bar casualties last night vs Woodies! Amazing! Both injury rolls were 9 and add +1 to 10. Huzzah!

First skill (as I do with Black Orcs) is Block. Brawler is not a substitute for block, its gravy to convert Both Downs to POWS when your other dice is a Push.

The high AV, Thick Skull is very handy and yes, whilst they're lesser players to the Block Tackle guys, I think they're very important to the OWA team.

The only player I dont take on OWA is the Dwarf Runner. Much prefer the Human Thrower to be my ball handler / distributer (to the Human Catcher).

JackassRampant

Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Posted: Apr 06, 2023 - 14:45

Not OWA specific, but Arm Bar is good as a random on a Rat Ogre, because of the tail. It's also good with Tackle and Stand Firm, again, as a random primary or starting skill.

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MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Apr 06, 2023 - 17:26

On Rat Ogre I want reliability and protection: Block, Guard, Pro. No room for sub-par skills such as Arm Bar, even as random.
If not Block, then Juggernaut for quite safe Blitz Actions.

JackassRampant

Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Posted: Apr 06, 2023 - 17:52

Block, yes, let's leave Block out of it. Block first, and now you have a 190k Block player with AV9+ and Loner. It cost you 12 SPP to get this investment.

Now, after Block, if you look at the S skill list, there's 8 good ones for a Rat Ogre to one poor one (and 3 that can't be taken, all for different reasons), and they concentrate the value of the player as you increase skills without much TV add. In fact, of the 9 skills available, Arm Bar is the second worst, and like I said, it's kinda okay on that player. Stand Firm, Guard, Juggernaut, Break Tackle, Multiple Block, and Thick Skull are all really nice on that player. Arm Bar and Brawler are decent at half price, and Pile Driver kinda sucks but in league formats it's at least occasionally hilarious. Is any of those as good as Pro? Well, maybe just Stand Firm and Guard are arguably worthy of that standard, maybe Juggernaut. How about any four of those? Because that's the real comparison in TV terms. In SPP terms, well, it's more like two and a half of those for Pro. I'd take that any day.

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MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Apr 06, 2023 - 18:13

I play a lot in the Box and people often have Block Rat Ogres.
I have seen Blodge Rat Ogres too (more rarely, of course, probably farmed by picking on GF), so, Block doesn't seem to be too hard to have.
Maybe the Rat Ogre will just have Block, but it's worth it. It makes harder to -2d block/blitz him rather than risking a dodge from him and makes Mighty Blow more efficient.
In terms of SPPs, if there is not enough time/games to earn 12 SPPs, I'd take Juggernaut.

JackassRampant

Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Posted: Apr 06, 2023 - 19:08

Yeah, in Box just hanging out a Block might be better. But in a league format, where you want your player to be as potent as possible without sacrificing efficiency, you're better off following Block up with random primaries, you can only get screwed once and there are so many ways to win.

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MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Apr 06, 2023 - 19:19

Yes, but once I have a Block Rat Ogre I don't want to risk to ruin the build by rolling Pile Driver or Arm Bar. It's not just a matter of getting a cheap S skill, but to get a skill with stacking synergy (or higher value, even without synergy) with the whole build.
Every skill slot matters, in my opinion. I could risk to randomize the S skill if, for example, the Rat Ogre got injured (with a NI or just MNG) and the next game is important (so, replacing him could have a valid reason) or the Season is about to end.
In perpetual environment I patiently wait for picking the few but good skills with synergy.

Garion26

Joined: Nov 28, 2021

Posted: Apr 06, 2023 - 21:03

JackassRampant wrote:

Block, yes, let's leave Block out of it. Block first, and now you have a 190k Block player with AV9+ and Loner. It cost you 12 SPP to get this investment.

Now, after Block, if you look at the S skill list, there's 8 good ones for a Rat Ogre to one poor one (and 3 that can't be taken, all for different reasons), and they concentrate the value of the player as you increase skills without much TV add. In fact, of the 9 skills available, Arm Bar is the second worst, and like I said, it's kinda okay on that player. Stand Firm, Guard, Juggernaut, Break Tackle, Multiple Block, and Thick Skull are all really nice on that player. Arm Bar and Brawler are decent at half price, and Pile Driver kinda sucks but in league formats it's at least occasionally hilarious. Is any of those as good as Pro? Well, maybe just Stand Firm and Guard are arguably worthy of that standard, maybe Juggernaut. How about any four of those? Because that's the real comparison in TV terms. In SPP terms, well, it's more like two and a half of those for Pro. I'd take that any day.

100% agree
Look it depends on how many games you are going to play with a player. FUMBBL has a subset of folks who play 100+ games with a team but even in that group of coaches/teams a non regeneration player probably won't make it all those games. If you think your player/team is going to last 15 games waiting until game 15 or so to get your first skill is probably not helpful. The same player with 13 SPP could have three random primary skills or a single secondary skills.

Whether that makes sense to hold for a secondary is a math problem in context of that player, and your goal for how long you will play the team.

Getting to 26 SPP for Blodge takes a fairly long time for Rat Ogre. 13 casualties (ignoring an MVP) is probably 15-30 games with no MNGs in there on a low AV high priority target. And it bumps your TV by 80K in matchmaker.

Is it better to save 50K and have your second skill be a random primary, and have that second skill be someplace around 2-5 games after block instead of 15 or so games after block? I think so.

Does it make sense to take three randoms instead of saving for block in the first place - depends on your risk tolerance both for the ogre surviving pre block, and rolling those random dice along the way.

Last edited by Garion26 on %b %06, %2023 - %22:%Apr; edited 1 time in total

MerryZ

Joined: Nov 28, 2005

Posted: Apr 06, 2023 - 22:01

Juggernaut is best skill for Rogre because it helps you on what rogre does best, push for oneturn.

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ph0enyx13

Joined: Nov 14, 2015

Posted: Apr 07, 2023 - 01:16

Catalyst32 wrote:

How do Brawler and Arm Bar work in game? What happens in the Client?

Are they a potential nuisance that might make already agitated opponents MORE agitated?
That might be reason enough to have them

How would you SKILL them? Same as most Chorfs and Dorf Blockers (aka Dorkers)?

Arm bar is irrelevant, its just MB on a failed dodge. Brawler helps them when blocking on the LoS because it makes turnovers lower as a pseudo reroll, but doesn't do anything to protect them from being hit so it is way weaker than block.
I think most people either roll randoms with them or try to get guard first then block or stand firm as a second skill.

remetagross

Joined: Mar 09, 2023

Posted: Apr 07, 2023 - 11:17

I'm still on my ball carrier RO project so obviously I'm not rolling any randoms. However I agree that once you have Block, a lot of primary skill suddenly get very interesting for the Rat-Ogre. I wouldn't say Arm bar is irrelevant on a player that has Prehensile Tail, all the more so if it has Block to thwart marked players away from attempting the -2DB. Even all the more so if it has Stability to prevent a marked player to blitz itself free on a push.