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spelledaren



Joined: Mar 06, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2023 - 12:45 Reply with quote Back to top

This is of course a post about my new league
Spelledaren's next big thing

It is a league without a schedule, so a low pressure place to have some fun, with custom rosters based on some classic teams. Moving towards a second season I will soon run a recruitment drive.

In this post I will lay out suggestions for tweaking the rosters used for next season. Any changes made to their first version is marked in bold. First come the rosters, and at the end some commentary. Feel free to discuss regardless of if you plan to join or not. All of the team designs can be modified, the whole point of this post is to listen to advice.

NOTE: the below lists now include changes made after this first was posted

Amazons
0-4 Blitzer 6 3 3+ 4+ 9+ GAS(P) Block, Defensive, Sure feet 100k
0-2 Catcher 7 2 2+ 4+ 8+ GA(S) Dodge, Sure feet 85k
0-2 Thrower 6 3 3+ 2+ 8+ GAP(S) Pass, Sure feet 75k
0-16 Linewoman 6 3 3+ 4+ 8+ GA(S) Sure feet 50k

RR50k
End of season: The player with the most games played and no Dodge, receive Dodge (20k).

Chaos
0-4 Chosen 6 3 3+ 3+ 10+ GSM(AP) Foul appearance, Iron Hard skin 90k
0-2 Bestigor 5 4 4+ 5+ 9+ GSM(A) Horns 100k
0-2 Spawn 7 3 3+ 3+ 9+ AM(GS) Extra arms, Foul appearance, Very long legs 85k
0-16 Beastmen 6 3 4+ 5+ 9+ GM(AS) Horns 50k

RR60k
End of season: All Chosen get 1 extra SPP for each game of the season when they gained at least 1 SPP.

Dark Elves
0-4 Blitzer 6 3 2+ 3+ 9+ GA(SP) Block, Safe Pair of hands 95k
0-2 Blocker 5 3 3+ 4+ 10+ GAS(P) Grab, Side step 85k
0-2 Witch elf 7 3 2+ 4+ 8+ GA(S) Frenzy, Jump up, Disturbing presence 105k
0-16 Linemen 5 3 2+ 3+ 9+ GA(S) 60k

RR50k
End of season: May sacrifice an uninjured player to remove one permanent injury.

Dwarves
0-4 Blitzer 5 3 3+ 5+ 9+ GS(AP) Block, Tackle, Thick skull 85k
0-2 Blocker 5 3 4+ 5+ 9+ GS(A) Block, Frenzy, Dauntless, Thick skull 90k
0-2 Runner 6 3 3+ 3+ 9+ GP(AS) Sure hands, Thick skull, Fend 80k
0-16 Linemen 4 3 4+ 5+ 10+ GS(A) Brawler, Thick skull 50k

RR50k
End of season: may choose a player to receive +AV and -MA and 5 SPP (0k).

Elves
0-4 Runner 8 2 2+ 4+ 8+ GA(SP) Dauntless, Leap 90k
0-2 Blitzer 7 3 2+ 3+ 8+ GA(SP) Wrestle, Guard 105k
0-2 Thrower 6 3 2+ 2+ 8+ GAP(S) Safe pass, Running pass 85k
0-16 linemen 6 3 2+ 3+ 8+ GA(SP) 60k

RR50k
End of season: may sacrifice one dedicated fan to take a rookie lineman or catcher.

Hobgoblins
0-4 Chaos dwarf 5 3 4+ 5+ 10+ GS(AM) Wrestle, Arm bar, Thick skull 80k
0-2 Chaos centaur 7 3 4+ 5+ 9+ GS(AM) Sure feet, Sprint, Break Tackle 85k
0-2 Blitzer 7 3 3+ 4+ 8+ GS(AP) Block, Diving tackle 90k
0-16 Linemen 6 3 3+ 4+ 8+ G(AS) Dirty Player 50k

RR60k
End of season: choose a lineman or blitzer to receive the Stab skill for the entire following season (20k).

Humans
0-4 Blitzer 7 3 3+ 4+ 9+ GS(AP) Block, Pro 100k
0-2 Thrower 6 3 3+ 2+ 9+ GP(AS) Sure Hands, Pass 80k
0-2 Catcher 8 2 3+ 5+ 8+ GA(S) Catch, Dodge 70k
0-16 Linemen 6 3 3+ 4+ 9+ G(AS) 50k

RR60k
End of season: cost of rerolls and linemen are halved at end of season.

Necromantic
0-4 Ghoul 7 3 3+ 3+ 8+ GA(SP) Dodge, Regeneration 80k
0-2 Werewolf 8 3 3+ 5+ 9+ GA(S) Claws, Frenzy, Regenerate 115k
0-2 Flesh Golem 4 4 5+ - 10+ GS(A) Stand firm, Regenerate, Thick skull 100k
0-16 Zombie 4 3 4+ - 9+ G(AS) Regenerate 35k

RR60k
End of season: roster any number of zombies at no cost at end of season.

Norse
0-4 Blockers 5 3 3+ 4+ 9+ GS(AP) Block, Jump up 85k
0-2 Blitzer 6 4 4+ - 8+ GS(A) Juggernaut, Frenzy 110k
0-2 Runner 6 3 3+ 3+ 8+ GP(AS) Block, Sure Hands 75k
0-16 Linemen 5 3 3+ 4+ 8+ G(AS) Block 50k

RR50k
End of season: choose one player to receive the Frenzy skill and Drunkard and 4 SPP (10k).

Orcs
0-4 Blocker 4 4 4+ 5+ 10+ GS(A) Leader 90k
0-2 Blitzer 6 3 3+ 4+ 10+ GS(AP) Block 90k
0-2 Goblin 6 2 3+ 5+ 8+ A(G) Dodge, Sneaky git, Fumblerooskie 60k
0-16 Lineman 5 3 3+ 4+ 9+ Thick skull 50k

RR60k
End of season: choose two linemen to each receive two different permanent stat injuries that they don't already have to give two blockers 6 SPP each.

Skaven
0-4 Blitzer 7 3 3+ 4+ 9+ GS(AM) Block, Prehensile tail 100k
0-2 Runner 9 2 2+ 4+ 7+ GA(SM) Dodge 85k
0-2 Thrower 7 3 3+ 2+ 8+ GP(ASM) On the ball, Sure hands 80k
0-16 Lineman 7 3 3+ 4+ 8+ G(ASM) 50k

RR60k
End of season: choose one player to receive a random mutation (20k).

Undead
0-4 Wight 6 3 3+ 4+ 9+ GS(AP) Block, Nerves of steel, Regenerate 90k
0-2 Mummy 3 5 5+ - 10+ S(AG) Multiple block, Regenerate 125k
0-2 Wraith 7 2 3+ 5+ 8+ A(G) Foul appearance, Shadowing, Nerves of steel, Regenerate, Titchy 70k
0-16 Skeleton 6 3 4+ 5+ 8+ G(AS) Regenerate 40k

RR60k
End of season: all players receive 1 SPP.


___________________________________________

Some commentary:
Not a lot of games have been played with these rosters yet. I have gotten a bit of feedback anyway, most about Undead and Elves. I am not too concerned about Undead overpowering the others I think, their last positional is a weird one and skeletons are brittle.

Several teams have gotten slight boosts in this version, in part to bring costs up a bit. Giving the dwarf blocker back Block will make the team much tougher from start. Chosen become more of a threat. I could talk on and on, but I'll leave it for a bit. Feel free to engage!

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Last edited by spelledaren on Aug 26, 2023 - 00:30; edited 5 times in total
awambawamb



Joined: Feb 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2023 - 14:53 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm always up for those things! I'm interested in Necromantics!

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spelledaren



Joined: Mar 06, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2023 - 15:31 Reply with quote Back to top

Just join, there is even room to play in season 1 still Smile

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spelledaren



Joined: Mar 06, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 14, 2023 - 23:51 Reply with quote Back to top

Some comments about each roster then:

Zons:
Agility 3+ team with A access. I think this is a good thing to have around. It functions kind of like a slower skaven team, but with A access for better development.

Chaos:
Beastmen are reduced in power (way too cheap in standard game). Sure mass horns is less useful, but still such a good mutation. This team can throw the ball, and can probably stay alive in most fights. I think they look fun to play.

Dark elves:
With no linemen costing 70k this became the slow elf team. Trying to balance the positionals is hard here, as I want to keep total team cost fairly even between rosters, but still make them seem worthwhile to get. I think Disturbing presence is a fun addition to make the WE stand out.

Dwarves:
The linemen are fairly rubbish at start, but are the only 10+ armour ones, and the only linemen with S access. Tackle has moved to the player that wants it. I think this team will be able to compete.

Elves:
This team got shot down by some comments for being too bad in the first draft, and catchers were changed. I think that Dauntless Ma8 Ag2+ is a terror, but no one has tried them yet. The blitzer is a wrestler type player now. Giving the thrower Running pass makes random pass skills more likely, since it can’t get much worse!

Hobgoblins:
I was kind of pleased with the roster as it was. It was a bit on the cheap side, the addition of Horns really adds a lot to the usefullness of the centaur. Does the team maybe have too many useful skills at start? Mass DP doesn’t help that much...

Humans:
Almost a standard roster. Pro is a nice flair thing, adding some power and even more rerolling.

Necromantic:
I wanted regenerate for ghouls, but then they had to drop Dodge. I think this can be a strong team, but maybe hard to start.

Norse:
The only team that can field blanket Block. This is incredibly powerful, so they lost some move. Their linemen never need any skills. The ST4 piece is great right away, but fragile.

Orcs:
The only team that has 4 players above St3, and with great armour. Even with a decrease in fighting strength they should be tougher than most. Giving the goblin fumblerooskie seems a laugh. He is already close to the ground, and he can put the ball down before fouling. Wanted a third skill to drive up cost.

Skaven:
Giving them a meaner streak, but they lose on agility. Prehensile tail sets them apart from others. On the ball thrower seems very good to me.

Undead:
Some concern about them becoming overpowered in the early game. 4 Block players that can pick S to back up the mummies. In the hands of a skilled coach this looks daunting. Skeletons and Wraiths arent very scary though. Comments have said Wraiths are useless. I was looking at giving them G access, and maybe giving Wights Ma5, but in the end this doesn’t feel right. The Wraith is almost not really there, titchy reflects that well, and maybe increases value as a ball carrier.

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spelledaren



Joined: Mar 06, 2004

Post   Posted: Mar 20, 2023 - 14:12 Reply with quote Back to top

I’ve had some feedback in other places.

From the above I think the following has to change:
Zons end of season bonus: Give Dodge to the player with the most games that does not already have Dodge.

Hobgoblins: drop the suggested Horns. Starting team gets a bit too good probably. Alternative: Centaur drops TS and gains BT instead (+5k).

Undead: Wraith PA stays at 5+.

Apart from this the team structure above looks promising.

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spelledaren



Joined: Mar 06, 2004

Post   Posted: Apr 02, 2023 - 00:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Added suggested changes into the above post of rosters. New addition is Fend for dwarf runner and safe pair of hands back on the DE runner.

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intrepidwilson



Joined: Feb 09, 2020

Post   Posted: Apr 02, 2023 - 14:38 Reply with quote Back to top

If I was running an orc team, which I am, I wouldn't swap an injury / stat decrease for 6SPP. If it was 12SPP, so 2 linos could get a Primary skill and be just over halfway to a second skill, that would be more appealing.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 02, 2023 - 15:30 Reply with quote Back to top

What? You injure a lino, give a blocker some spp, then fire the lino after the next game? 6spp is arguably too much for that deal
Carthage



Joined: Mar 18, 2021

Post   Posted: Apr 02, 2023 - 16:55 Reply with quote Back to top

If I had time for another league, I'd join.
Humans Orcs and Undead seem to be a tier above the rest just from theorycrafting in my head. Chaos could be fun, a AM primary player on a relatively balanced roster could be fun.
spelledaren



Joined: Mar 06, 2004

Post   Posted: Apr 02, 2023 - 20:35 Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah the orc one is basicly paying for spp where they want it.

Undead do seem powerful, but they should break every now and then because of limited armour. Been playing with the thought of replacing MB with a different skill for mummies, but nothing I want to push right now.

Yes, these humans look good.

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Last edited by spelledaren on Apr 05, 2023 - 17:15; edited 1 time in total
spelledaren



Joined: Mar 06, 2004

Post   Posted: Apr 05, 2023 - 16:51 Reply with quote Back to top

One could rate the teams from best to worst in 4 general categories, Movement, Brutality, Agility and Resilience. Looking at stats and skills and skill access, I think that would look like this:

Movement:
1. Skaven
2. Elves
3. Humans
4. Amazons
5. Hobgoblins
6. Chaos
7. Undead
8. Dark Elves
9. Necromantic
10. Norse
11. Orcs
12. Dwarves

Brutality:
1. Norse
2. Undead
3. Dwarves
4. Orcs
5. Hobgoblins
6. Chaos
7. Necromantic
8. Amazons
9. Humans
10. Skaven
11. Dark elves
12. Elves

Agility:
1. Elves
2. Dark Elves
3. Amazons
4. Skaven
5. Humans
6. Norse
7. Orcs
8. Hobgoblins
9. Necromantic
10. Chaos
11. Undead
12. Dwarves

Resilience;
1. Dwarves
2. Orcs
3. Chaos
4. Necromantic
5. Humans
6. Dark Elves
7. Undead
8. Hobgoblins
9. Norse
10. Amazons
11. Skaven
12. Elves

Grand total score (lower is better):
Humans 22
Orcs 24
Amazons 25
Chaos 25
Skaven 26
Norse 26
Hobgoblins 26
Elves 27
Undead 27
Dark Elves 27
Dwarves 28
Necromantic 29

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Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 05, 2023 - 17:04 Reply with quote Back to top

just remember, you need to include 'cost' in that. a goblin that only costs 20k, has the same stats as a goblin, but is FAR better
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 05, 2023 - 17:05 Reply with quote Back to top

a mummy that costs 200k has the same stats as a mummy, but is very very bad
spelledaren



Joined: Mar 06, 2004

Post   Posted: Apr 05, 2023 - 17:19 Reply with quote Back to top

Thank you, yes, I’ve had that somewhat in mind. I find it unlikely that necro will play 4 ghouls for example right now, and I’ve let costs influence the resilience value a little bit (undead could maybe be more resilient than DE and humans).

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spelledaren



Joined: Mar 06, 2004

Post   Posted: Apr 06, 2023 - 03:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Because Nelphine thought about it, I had a go at valuing these rosters based on his efforts to create a system for getting the right values here: https://fumbbl.com/p/group&group=12181&op=view

Based on 60k human lineman, but old ruleset. It is a lot to parse so I think this post might be for Nelphine mostly Smile

When doing this I did some changes:
PA: going to 3+ adds 5k, going to 2+ from there another 10k. No refund for lesser PA.

Going to AV8+ on linemen with exactly 4 players above that on the rest of the team, gives linemen -15k cost. I gave P access for free if 2 passing skills.

I also had to judge the value of some new skills. A few teams seem to break the rules set up there: Norse don’t seem to be able to have 16 Block, Undead should only be allowed 3? And Necro have too many high MA players.

Things that seemed off was maybe who got to pay for skill access. Anyway, here is the cost list when put through that process. I may have made mistakes.

Human
Lineman 60k
Blitzer 120k
Thrower 95k
Catcher 80k

Skaven
Lineman 65k
Blitzer 130k
Thrower 115k (traded A for P)
Runner 100k

Orcs
Lineman 60k
Blocker 110k
Blitzer 100k
Goblin 70k (traded G for A)

Dwarves
Lineman 70k
Blitzer 100k
Blocker 110k
Runner 95k

Norse (max block 12?)
Lineman 65k
Blocker 90k
Blitzer 130k
Runner 95k

Amazons
Linewoman 65k
Blitzer 140k
Catcher 110k
Thrower 95k

Elves
Linemen 75k
Blitzer 115k
Catcher 80k
Thrower 105k (P for free)

Dark Elves
Linemen 95k
Blitzer 115k
Witch elf 120k
Runner 125k

Undead (max 3 Block?)
Skeletons 50k
Mummy 150k
Wight 120k
Wraith 75k (lost G access)

Necromantic (max 2 ma7)
Zombies 50k
Ghoul 100k
Werewolf 140k
Golem 120k

Hobgoblins
Linemen 60k
Blitzer 110k
Chaos dwarf 80k
Centaur 110k

Chaos
Lineman 60k
Chosen 115k
Bestigor 100k
Spawn 95k (replace G with A)


Stand outs:
Chaos dwarf? Clearly better than suggested cost. Elf catcher too.
Amazon blitzer best player? Hmm…DE linemen at 95k seems excessive.

It suggests that some teams are particularily undercosted by me, if one thinks the system holds.

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