m0nty
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Aug 19, 2004 - 17:26 |
 
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The Vault forums are down for maintenance, but we're getting to a really interesting stage of the phase 4 discussion about tweaking the Nurgle roster and I'd like to continue it. The last roster Galak Starscraper (a key member of the Blood Bowl Rules Committee) had cobbled together from various suggestions was:
NURGLE TEAMS
0-12 Plague Zombies 40,000 4 3 3 9 Stab GM (use Rotter minis)
0-4 Beastmen 60,000 6 3 3 8 Horns GSM
0-4 Rotters 110,000 4 4 2 9 Foul Appearance, Regenerate GSM (use Chaos Warrior minis)
0-1 Beast of Nurgle 140,000 4 5 1 9 Foul Appearance, Loner, Mighty Blow, Really Stupid, Regenerate, Tentacles SM
SPECIAL RULES
A Rotter team may not have an apothecary. Instead, if a player is blocked, stabbed, or fouled by a player from the Nurgle team and killed, then he is crossed off the opposing team roster as normal, but the Nurgle team may add a new Plague Zombie to their roster for free after the game. Before a Plague Zombie makes an improvement roll, roll a D6. On a 1, the player succumbs to the Rot and turns into a puddle of green goo and is crossed off the roster (ie he's DEAD!).
This includes most of the ideas from the thread, and as usual Galak has worked harder to knit together disparate parts than a necromancer constructing a flesh golem. Now, having done that, I'll give my latest preferred option.
NURGLE TEAMS
0-16 Rotters 50,000 5 3 3 8 Foul Appearance GS (use Rotter minis)
0-4 Nurgle Warriors 110,000 4 4 2 9 Awful Stench, Foul Appearance, Regenerate GS (use Chaos Warrior minis)
0-4 Plague Zombies 50,000 5 3 2 8 Foul Appearance, Stab G (use Zombie minis)
0-1 Beast of Nurgle 140,000 4 5 1 9 Awful Stench, Foul Appearance, Loner, Mighty Blow, No Hands, Really Stupid, Regenerate, Tentacles S
SPECIAL RULES
A Rotter team may not have an apothecary. Instead, if a player is blocked, stabbed, or fouled by a player from the Nurgle team and killed, then he is crossed off the opposing team roster as normal, but the Nurgle team may add a new Plague Zombie to their roster for free after the game. Before a Plague Zombie makes an improvement roll, roll a D6. On a 1, the player succumbs to the Rot and turns into a puddle of green goo and is crossed off the roster (i.e. he's DEAD!).
Foul Appearance (Mutation)
The player’s appearance is so horrible that any opposing player that wants to block the player (or use a special attack that takes the place of a block) must first roll a D6 and score 2 or more. If the opposing player rolls a 1 he is too revolted to make the block and it is wasted (though the opposing team does not suffer a turnover).
Awful Stench (Mutation)
This player's rank odour of disease and decay is so overpowering that any player must subtract 1 from the D6 when they pass, intercept or catch the ball for each opposing player with Awful Stench that is within three squares of them.
There are still several unresolved discussion points:
- What names do we give each position (e.g. Rotters, Plaguebearers, Nurgle Warriors, Pestigors, and Plague Zombies)?
- Do we keep Beastmen as Linemen, make them 0-4 or 0-2 positionals, or drop them altogether?
- Do we need a new zombie archetype called Plague Zombies to further differentiate the roster from Beastmen?
- What stats should the Plague Zombie have... based on zombies or human linemen, or something else (given that the fluff suggests high AV)?
- What skills should the Plague Zombie have... FA, Regen, Stab, Bloodthirst, Secret Weapon, Tough, or something else?
- Should the Raise the Dead/Infect special rule be extended beyond kills made by the Beast to all players on the team, or just the positionals?
- Should Plague Zombies have to occasionally survive a 2+ roll or turn into a puddle of goo (to fit the decay fluff), and should this be when they roll for an improvement, or after every match?
- Given that FA is a perfect hallmark skill for the Nurgle roster, but that it is too strong to give to all players as it is, should it be split so that FA would be the 2+ to hit, and the -1 to ball handling be separated into another mutation called something like Awful Stench or Cloud of Flies? |
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Mezir
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 19, 2004 - 17:35 |
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Since FA is currently the only skill that is a decent alternative to either Claw or RSC as a physical (and yes I realise those skills are different in the Vault) I'd hate to see it split up into two skills, as that would be a blow to Chaos and Skaven teams. Other than that, I have no real opinion. |
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Tinkywinky
Joined: Aug 25, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 19, 2004 - 17:59 |
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To give the rotters a REALLY interesting concept you could make the zombified player -1 MA and -1 AG + FA, keep the player cost and then just transfer the player over to the nurgle roster. To not make this overpowered change the goo-rule for "acquired" zombies to something that has to be rolled after each game so you can never count on keeping the zombies in the long run. this way you will get REALLY excited when you get a zombie-minotaur + it will create some sickning goo-rolls in the matches that follow. 
I like using chaos warriors for the S4 position and rotters as linemen now that chaos warriors are gone from the chaos team. the split of FA seems unnecceseary though. If deemed that too few blocks are allowed against the team just remove FA from the Nurgle warriors (they have armours that hide their hideuosness after all). |
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AlcingRagaholic
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 19, 2004 - 18:07 |
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I like Galak's idea myself.
Z |
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Glomp
Joined: Jan 04, 2004
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| Posted:
Aug 19, 2004 - 19:03 |
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Heh why has this topic been started here since we keep getting moaned at to use the vault forums instead?
Oh well at least this post wont get deleted if I use the words 'I don't like' 
- Dont see any problems with the current names
- I reackon beastmen should be positionals (give Nurgle teams their own flavour and leave the beasties to the chaos teams) 0-4 sounds fair considering the chances of injury
- As for the plague zombie stats I say make them orc lineman stats the high av fits the fluff well and if theyre going to pop on a roll of (1) on the skill rolls, they should have the protection needed to stop them becoming line fodder.
-As far as skills for them goes i'm all in favour of flavour so setup some kind of random mutation table as a starting skill. (although i recognise in Gw's strive for banality this is unlikely). Fa on its own sounds fine though.
-Since infect never works anyway and its now proposed that rotters get free players to replace dead ones, it might be a good idea to either dump infect all together or to give it to beasts for free (reduction in their purchace price). Beasts are good enough anyway without paying for a useless skill.
-Erm not sure about the splitting up of FA. In its current form it does seem overpowered, infact I have no idea why people take claw on most of their players  Although splitting it up may be a blow for some teams you might have to think a bit more about which mutation you give to each player i.e give a gutter runner Cloud of Flies (my preferred name) + passblock to complete the combo, but you dont then get the dice roll in order to hit him which is currently an incredibly useful skill on blodgers.
The main problem with this idea is whick player are you likely to give FA to now? The incarnation above would probably make it as widely used as spikes are now (not very). Erm oooh err might want to rethink that one, not sure myself.
Probably a stupid point, but which players on the suggested roster have mutations access? I'd assume all of them but some clarification might be nice.
And once again I can use the freedom of the fumbbl forums to say: I HATE THE DWARF ROSTER AND THE WINNINGS SYSTEM THEY SUCK SUCK SUCK!!!  |
Last edited by Glomp on %b %19, %2004 - %19:%Aug; edited 1 time in total |
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Glomp
Joined: Jan 04, 2004
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| Posted:
Aug 19, 2004 - 19:17 |
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Also slightly off topic, why does the stab skill seem to be given out to so many players? It seems that BBowl is becoming less of a thinking tactical game and more of a 'i've rolled more 6's than you so I win' type of game (not unlike the warhammer system of victory). Dump stab now now now they've got an anti-block skill to get the ball off blodgers already this is getting silly.
How scary are wood elves really? |
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m0nty
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 19, 2004 - 20:30 |
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The Vault forums are still borked, or at least they look borked to me.
I actually think it might be worthwhile looking at the possibility of giving Chaos, Skaven and Nurgle players the ability to take all Mutations on a normal roll. However, to make this balanced you would need to tone down the popular ones. Splitting FA would accomplish that. Claw would need to be reduced to +1 to AV, remembering that it is stackable with Mighty Blow. Tentacles would have to be toned down a bit too, perhaps instead of opposed ST rolls the Tentacle player's coach rolls a D6 and has to beat the victim's ST. Big Hand is a little powerful for a normal roll, and it overlaps now with Extra Arms... perhaps drop it. |
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Britnoth
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 19, 2004 - 20:38 |
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Those two rosters make some of the weird stuff proposed here look normal.
40k linemen av 9 (?) with daggers that don't get sent off = sick/broken.
40k linemen av 9 (?) needing a 2+ to even be blocked = sick/broken.
Rotters are a strong team with easy access to multiple FA, their lack of apoth is their one major drawback. Armour 9 would make them twice as strong as they are now.
I'm happy I am no longer getting depressed by bothering to read the vault shambles any longer.
PS. Monty, I think you mean baulked. |
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Kommando
Joined: Dec 08, 2003
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Aug 19, 2004 - 20:44 |
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wouldn't it be easier to introduce physical skills then? (other teams will not be allowed to take it) this way you don't need to weaken any skills. |
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m0nty
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 19, 2004 - 21:00 |
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I mean borked, as in what the Swedish Chef says! 
The linemen version with FA was 50k with AV8, Britnoth.
Rotters are a poor to average team as they are now - their result stats show they're not strong, and they have real trouble getting to the sort of TR where the Chaos do so well. |
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Glomp
Joined: Jan 04, 2004
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Aug 19, 2004 - 21:57 |
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Hmm the idea of chaos etc getting mutations on normal roll actually sounded good - more flavour.
Dont like the idea of of dropping big hand though 
Also since rotters/low level chaos are underpowered it seems a little strange to be making them take 2 skills just to have the blocking advantage. Possibly they could move some of the better mutations (other than the ones that could be reliably toned down - tentacles is over powered) to another skill catagory still only accessable when they roll a double.
It would make rotters less powerfull in ranked (everone playes them at low levels and when the block, tackle, mb ,claw players show up they'd have trouble getting games. But thats the same scenario that exists now.
A stackable claw+mb+po is quite a scary combination too even if it is only +2 on the armour in total.
Nice idea needs work though  |
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Glomp
Joined: Jan 04, 2004
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Aug 19, 2004 - 22:07 |
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The main thing I don't get is why are nurgle so special?
I dont see the point in a seperate chaos team unless all the rival gods are supported.
Some one suggesting a sensible team idea for the other chaos power might get them implamented. Personally I really hate chaos but it would be nice to see more variation. |
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m0nty
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 19, 2004 - 22:25 |
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inq, the Nurgle roster has a long history in Blood Bowl that is significantly different to the WHFB fluff. It had a separate background - instead of being deriven from Warhammer's Nurgle army, it was supposed to be a normal Chaos team that got infected. Read the Dirty Rotten Scoundrels article for the BB background. Foul Appearance is obviously the hallmark skill of Nurgle, although nowadays it is very different to the one described in that article. |
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Glomp
Joined: Jan 04, 2004
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Aug 19, 2004 - 22:36 |
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Hmm my si'd players convert to the other side?
Probably a good idea that they were changed then |
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Jinxed
Joined: Jul 04, 2004
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Aug 19, 2004 - 22:49 |
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1- I agree. There should be 5 different flavours of Chaos. One for each God and Undecided.
2-The aim should be to make a fluffy Nurglite team which is balanced
In my opinion a Nurgle team should be slow and clumsy but tough as nails.
So that would be something like this:
0-4 Pestigors; MA:5 ST:4 AG:2(1?) AV:9 horns, foul appearance, regenerate
0-4 Beasties; MA:5 ST:3 AG:2 AV:9 horns, regenerate
0-12 Plague zombies: MA:4 ST:3 AG:2 AV:8 cloud of flies, thick skull, degenerate
Cloud of flies = You need a 2+ in order to be able to block these buggers. (toned down FA)
Degenerate = If a Plague zombie does a skill roll the coach rolls a third die. If he rolls equal to or under the number of skills the zombie has (incl. the new one!) the zombie suffers one random stat loss (1-2=-MA / 3-4=-AG / 5=-AV / 6=-ST)
Please note the 'something like' this before making fun of me. |
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