Smess
Joined: Feb 13, 2004
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 Posted:
Jan 31, 2005 - 00:08 |
 
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I agree with the points of johan and mully |
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johan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 31, 2005 - 03:10 |
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| vanGorn wrote: | The low Ag teams can get high agility players by rolling 11 on skillups.
The low Av teams cannot get better armour. The good old magic helmet is gone.  |
But see also the Vault rules - you would be able to get +AV.
/johan |
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razta
Joined: Aug 12, 2003
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Jan 31, 2005 - 11:50 |
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Pelzmuff
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
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Jan 31, 2005 - 12:08 |
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http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&showmatches=1&team_id=114671 This team played undead followed up by 6 games of chaos. Frankly I don't see the point where bashers come in as stronger in the long run.
The league team mentioned in the team's bio placed second in a fixed schedule division with dwarves, chaos dwarves, necros, orcs and khemri. Yea, three players died on the tabletop pitch to get there...so what? Then they advanced to the league finals, which is still to be played. |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 31, 2005 - 15:22 |
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Oh I see , because of this ONE example I change my whole point of view on this subject. PLEASE ....... of course there will be agility teams that do well in long term leagues and bashy teams that will suck.
The question is on AVERAGE, does BB favor the basher or agility teams in long term environments. |
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Bascrebolder
Joined: Nov 19, 2004
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Jan 31, 2005 - 15:47 |
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I really believe bashing teams have the advantage at present in fumbbl. Only in short-term tourneys agile teams are on par (or have a slight advantge over) bashers. If losing would be penalized more this un-balance could be corrected imo.
There are so many coaches that ask / state that basher teams have an advantage while you hardly ever hear someone say the agile teams have unfair advantages. Only this should be enough to show the current unbalance… |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 31, 2005 - 15:55 |
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| Quote: |
If losing would be penalized more this un-balance could be corrected imo.
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I dont think this has anything to do with it. What we are saying is the bashing teams are WINNING with their style in the long run. By penalizing losing, aren't you then penalizing the agility team that just lost with 4 CAS even more?
One thing that would help is to take away ageing since in a league where everyone plays the equal amount of games, the agility teams will tend to get more skill rolls and more risks to age. However, I think in Open leagues like FUMBBL aging is needed to keep teams from 300+ TRs.
Ive always liked thew suggestion of removing the 6 SPP and 16 SPP ageing rolls and keeping everything else the same. |
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Bascrebolder
Joined: Nov 19, 2004
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Jan 31, 2005 - 16:04 |
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Mully,
I agree with you that removing ageing would help agile teams more than bashing teams. I don’t understand however what the problem is with teams getting at tr 300. If people like playing at that rating: let them! If they don’t: well there are always ways to reduce TR… |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 31, 2005 - 16:20 |
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| Quote: |
I don’t understand however what the problem is with teams getting at tr 300. If people like playing at that rating: let them! If they don’t: well there are always ways to reduce TR…
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Yeah I understand your point. I think that's more of a personal choice and I agree with JJ (for once) that BB really wasn't meant to be played at those TR levels. I go back and forth on this issue myself. Having 5 teams in Div-X with no ageing, it seems a little too easy to build up the TR for my own teams. but i digress....... |
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mstrchef13
Joined: Dec 11, 2004
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Jan 31, 2005 - 21:07 |
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Lets consult the records, shall we?
From the statistics page, we see that of the standard races, Chaos Dwarf (bashy) and Amazon (dodgy) win 47% of their games. Next are Elf(dodgy), Skaven (dodgy) and Undead (bashy) at 45%, and Wood Elf (dodgy) at 44%. At the low end of the scale are Chaos (bashy) at 37%, Rotters (bashy) at 38%, and Khemri (bashy) and Human (mixed) at 39%. I think that what this means is that you can win with bashy teams, and you can win with dodgy teams. You can suck with bashy teams and you can suck with dodgy teams.
<Editorial Alert>
I think what it comes down to is that many people who play super bashy teams don't care if they win or lose, so long as they generate casualties. There are 4 TR300+ Chaos teams active right now. None of them have a winning record, but all have about a 2-1 or higher casualty rate. They have super high TRs, so they must be good, right?
</Editorial Alert>
Anyway, the question itself is irrelavent, since my teams are going to suck whether they are dodgy or bashy until I can learn to be more patient and not roll so many friggin dice. Gee, I wonder if your team success is related more to the race of the team or the skill of the coach????? |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 31, 2005 - 22:42 |
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Ok great now I have to deal with a Balti-moron. You must have grown up in Dundalk or something.
Your statistics above are meaningless since they involve an open environment where elf teams/coaches can cherry pick and play whatever races they choose. If you have the time to go through the matches of the most successfull elf teams you will find a LARGE majority of their games are against other dodgy teams, whereas the bashers tend to have to play other bashers to get games.
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I think what it comes down to is that many people who play super bashy teams don't care if they win or lose, so long as they generate casualties
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Power gamers choose bashy teams like CDs because they are stronger than the other races and are more likely to win with them. It has nothing to do with wanting to generate casualties, it has to do with wanting to gain in CR.
Next time you post please do some better research before embarrassing Charm City again.
PS - spent 25 years around Baltimore so I dont get much chance to make fun of my hometowners here. |
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mstrchef13
Joined: Dec 11, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 01, 2005 - 20:58 |
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| Mully wrote: |
Power gamers choose bashy teams like CDs because they are stronger than the other races and are more likely to win with them. It has nothing to do with wanting to generate casualties, it has to do with wanting to gain in CR.
Next time you post please do some better research before embarrassing Charm City again.
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They weren't *my* statistics, they were from the site, and I believe that (1) cherry picking goes both ways, and (2) the sample size was large enough to discount the effects of it. Besides, if elf teams are always playing other elf teams, then shouldn't their win rate be lower since someone has to lose as well as win?
Secondly, my point (and I did have one) was that I don't think that race has as much to do with how good a team is as does coaching ability. I think that the better coaches can have success with both dodgy and bashy teams, whereas the sucky coaches like me can lose equally as well with both types.
Thirdly, upon reflection I think my point should have been that we all don't view success the same way. Is success defined as winning percentage, or is it defined as TR? Is a 3/3/4 team with a TR of 180 more successful than a 8/0/2 team with a TR of 135? Depends upon what you value more as *your* mark of success.
Lastly, I'm not actually from Baltimore, but from the burbs. However, it's the big city nearby, so that's what I claim when I tell people in cyberspace where I'm from since no one would have heard of where I actually live. And I would *never* claim to be from Dumb-dalk. |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 01, 2005 - 23:02 |
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Lastly, I'm not actually from Baltimore, but from the burbs
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Well run for your life 'cause the Burbs are getting "urbanized". I lived in Towson and Owings Mills before escaping to Cincinnati, home of racial rioting. I got 3 bloodbowl friends still there if you ever want to revive an actual table top league. |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 02, 2005 - 00:17 |
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Does anyone else find it amusing that the guy who started this thread, started it with his first post ever? |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 02, 2005 - 14:14 |
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Well mstr, you can't say that these stats are correct and countered my the number of games because game selection is the majority so they ARE biased.
ps: didn't read anything else so doesn't take any position on the topic. |
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