JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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  Posted:
Jun 03, 2005 - 13:44 |
 
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Yesterday I was specing a Chaos Dwarfs match and suddendly I came up thinking of some reasons why Chaos Dwarfs are not at all the big mean BloodBowl machine eveybody think they are.
They have high MA, high AV, high ST, but they lack the only onething that truly fits for CHAOS Dwarfs: mutations. 
I think CDs should have access to mutations just like their Chaos counterpart. After all, Horned Bull Centaurs make sense, and why should Bull Centaurs be any different from Minotaurs? I know, original fantasy legends (mainly LotR) suggest that Dwarfs are very difficult to corrupt, but the "centaur" is a mutation itself, so it is obvious that the Chaos Gods CAN corrupt Dwarfs.
Chaos Dwarfs also lack Right Stuff (which even AV9 Orcs have), so their TTM ability is wasted. And they have problems developing a one turner (again, VLL would help a LOT in the process).
All in all, av9, ST4, mov9 hardly compensates for the logical lack of mutations and for the reduced ability to develop REALLY fast players.
They are just an ordinary team with ordinary skill rolls.
I don't say they are underpowered, but sure they are not the perfect BB team, because they had all the things that could make them "special" (mutations) removed.
Do the fellow Fumbblers think that Mutations are needed in order to make a CD team BOTH competitive and fluff wise? |
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Shinan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 03, 2005 - 13:47 |
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But fluffwise Dwarves (Chaos Dwarves as well) are renowned for their resistance to mutations. I haven't read up on the old Chaos Dwarf army book but as far as I know Chaos Dwarves are just... worshipping the chaos gods... Like some Norsemen... Shouldn't Norse get access to mutations too since they are so close to the warp? |
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"Älä löi, en ole hurrit." |
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SergeiBautin
Joined: Jul 15, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 03, 2005 - 13:48 |
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Hmm, good point. But i think CD coaches would have an even harder time getting games for their teams if the dwarfs, BC and hobgobbos (?) were infected with RSC and such. But fluffwise i would like it, definately. And after all, its up to every coach if they want to choose the killermutations or not. I kinda liked the mutations in edition2, where claw got +1 to catch the ball, and tentacles gave +1 on the throwingroll  |
Last edited by SergeiBautin on %b %03, %2005 - %13:%Jun; edited 1 time in total |
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Cloggy
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 03, 2005 - 13:49 |
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It would be fun, but there would be a need for some SEVERE compensation for this.
The CD's recently needed more expensive rerolls because they were simply too strong.
The only way I see mutation access as possible would be to for instance drop the AV for both the cd blockers and the bulls to 8. TBH I can't think of any other way to introduce mutation access and keep the other teams competitive. |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 03, 2005 - 13:50 |
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CD's are competitive.
They have all the right players in all the right positions.
Dwarven Blocker to control the LoS.
Fast Strong Bulls to act as Blitzers of tough ball holders.
Cheap to replace fodder in Hobgoblin.
Added to all that thet get to have a Big Guy.
CD's are fine, if they need any adjustment, then maybe they need to lose the Big Guy. |
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BB-Pad
Joined: May 05, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 03, 2005 - 13:52 |
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Bull centaurs with big hand would be awesome. Too good in fact! But I agree with the fluff aspect. |
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monboesen
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 03, 2005 - 13:55 |
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CD's are plenty good already. In fact I find them to be one of the best teams overall. And thats over the entire TR range as well.
With mutations they would be insanely strong. |
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BunnyPuncher
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 03, 2005 - 13:55 |
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CDs are better than fine... in the hands of a skilled coach they are imho the best team (followed closely by Orcs (Long Term) and Wood Elves (Winning any 1 Game). As such, from the perspective of gameplay they hardly need another advantage.
Fluff wise several others have pointed out why this would be a bad idea... Dwarfs are resistant to chaos mutations... always have been since the early editions... its a nice little racial trait that keeps things interesting.
Edit: shouldnt you (jan) have been calling for mutations on ogres at the same time here? |
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Hoodeddwarf
Joined: Feb 15, 2005
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| Posted:
Jun 03, 2005 - 13:56 |
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I think perhaps you have a point in that mutations fluff-wise would fit. Surely chaos dwarves don't have a problem being competitive without them though. A cd side already loaded up with guard and mb would be a much more difficult to beat with some dwarves with rsc and a big handed centaur. Surely the changes needed to keep them balanced would alter them considerably. |
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angelface
Joined: Mar 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 03, 2005 - 13:58 |
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If they are not underpowered, as you say, why did the bulls need any mutations? They are mutations of a bull in themselves. 
And trust me, as long as claw and rsc is available, there won't be too many roleplayers out there with a choice of horns.  |
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Flynn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 03, 2005 - 14:14 |
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i may be the only one but i have always wanted chaos elves
more expensive
slower
something
but elves with mutations !
then extra arms and stuff might actually get used sometimes |
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Shinan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 03, 2005 - 14:15 |
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Well some Dark Elves quite obviously worship Khorne and Slaanesh in WHFB. Maybe Dark Elves should have access to mutations? |
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"Älä löi, en ole hurrit." |
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Rusk
Joined: Dec 08, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 03, 2005 - 14:16 |
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As far as I remember Chaos dwarves are just Evil dwarves, worshipping some god named Hashut (not sure about the name ), much like the dark elves worshipping Khaine (? again, not sure about the name)
Apart from their enormously disproportionate hats, they usually dont have mutations in the Warhammer world. And Bull centaurs are not a mutaion per se but a cross breed/assembly between bull and dwarf. |
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Flynn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 03, 2005 - 14:17 |
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my thoughts exactly
ive always thought that dark elves should get some slannesh stuff in bloodbowl and whfb
maybe daemonettes instead of witch elves
wouldnt even have to change the char, just give them phys access
dark eldar too !! |
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Proud to be a professor in Wuhan's Fouling Academy
Goodbye Cusi |
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johan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 03, 2005 - 14:20 |
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Agree with most things people say - CD is one of the best teams around as it is, mutations are non-fluffy, and Big Hand on Bull Centaurs would be sick.
/johan |
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