thechosenone
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
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  Posted:
Jul 18, 2005 - 11:00 |
 
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Due to having recently coached a dark elf side, I have come to a conclusion that surprised even me: subtley, dark elves are potentially the most bashy race in bloodbowl. Here is why:
FIRST A DEFINTION OF BASHY USED HERE - 'To give more damage than you, yourself, take'.
THE TWO MAJOR REASONS
1. Ag4 and, later on, combined with dodge basically means I can dodge an elf out to assist another elf so it can make a two dice block. There is little risk doing this, and it means that in any one on one mark up between an elf and another player, the elf shall certainly get the chance to make a 2 die block.
2. Same principle. Ag4 and, later on, combined with dodge means that I can dodge a tonne of elves to any prone player and do a respectable, if not brutal foul. Skaven only have up to 4 gutters that, if marked by another player, can come to the party of a foul safely, elves have a whole friggen team!
3. they can dodge away from opposing players and not get blocked at little risk.
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Ok, now those two points I have mentioned. Not even an orc or dwarf team could do this with such little risk. They could do it but it would be risky!!! - So they don't!
Supplementary reasons.
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Add to this a armour of 8, which although not 9 like orcs and dwarfs, is a good enough value when you consider the agility, you have a team that can really hurt sides. And, let us not forget the witch elves who can frenzy people off the pitch with dodge assists!!!.
Now now, I hear you saying, but they cannot normally get strength skills, e.g., mighty blow and guard. Sure that is true. But here is the beauty!! Some players do not play teams with heaps of mighty blow - usually the softer coaches. So what do they do if they see a dark elf team? They think oh yeah its ok. But if my first two points are engaged in, this team will get hurt.
Does anyone agree with me? or have some good counter-arguments. I'd love to hear them.
Dark elves are stronger than other elves and all other races |
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Laviak
Joined: Jul 19, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 18, 2005 - 11:11 |
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Lack of strength skills makes them a lot less bashy than a solid basher team. Also, as with any elf team, the players are expensive, which means they will usually be outnumbered (or at least, will run out of players sooner).
Most Bashy team -- Ogres. 10x ST5 players is pretty hard to beat. |
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We Fink Wer Orks
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Help save blood bowl, foul an elf today!. |
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thechosenone
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
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Jul 18, 2005 - 11:15 |
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I like your point about money - a very good point, which not even I saw.
Ogres..aawwww I forgot about ogres. Ok every team bar them then! |
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thechosenone
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
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Jul 18, 2005 - 11:16 |
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I like your point about money and the correlation between lack of numbers - a very really realy good, deep thought, point, which not even I saw. That point alone has made my thread a sucess to me!!! thx koala
Ogres..aawwww I forgot about ogres. Ok every team bar them then! |
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torsoboy
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Jul 18, 2005 - 11:17 |
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I was going to start a Dark Elf team for almost the exact same reasoning - though I wouldn't avoid teams with heaps of mighty blow. AV8 isn't much, but they've got better survivability than humans due to their dodging out. I would try to get MB on the blitzers (maybe the witches too), it makes a huge diference in the long run.
One thing that I don't agree with in your example, is that the whole team might engage in a gangfoul. For one, it would create huge gaps in your defense if done wrong, and dark elfs are too slow to catch up with runners if they're out of position. And second, though you might have more players participating in a foul than higher AV teams, those teams need less players to do exactly the same damage... suddenly it doesn't look as good.
Still, I think it's foolish to think Darkies can't possibly be that bashy.
/me needs more ranked slots  |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Jul 18, 2005 - 11:23 |
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Elves lack Guard.
Guard is the ultimate bashy skill. Much more than MB.
Elves should choose Guard on every double, but still it's unlikely they will have more than three/four guards.
Bashy types can easily have seven-eight, plus positionals with ST4 and Big Guys.
If this doesn't convince you, I'd gladly pay a visit to your bashy dark elves with my ballplaying Orcs....  |
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torsoboy
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Jul 18, 2005 - 11:26 |
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bb teams JanMattys
dude, you don't even have ball playing Orcs.  |
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The plural of anecdote isn't data. |
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thechosenone
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
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Jul 18, 2005 - 11:28 |
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hmmm, yes at a higher team rating - 250 - when it could be expected that a dawrf or orc team has many many guard skills tthis sounds dangerous. I guess the counter then, would be to use the agility to mark players and dodge away from slow ones (rendering them out of the next turn or so cause they are slow) so that the elves have more men per man then the other team - then they might be able to bash. With their agility they might be able to organise this setup. |
Last edited by thechosenone on %b %18, %2005 - %11:%Jul; edited 1 time in total |
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Laviak
Joined: Jul 19, 2004
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Jul 18, 2005 - 11:28 |
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On a side note, my DE in faction used to be quite a bashy side (for elves). They had 4 +STs and 3 Guard in their early days, which was enough to out-bash quite a lot of teams. On the other hand, they didn't have enough of the elf staples (block, dodge, sidestep, tackle) to do that well against other elves. Of course, aging caught up with them, and there is now only one of those players left on the team. |
_________________
We Fink Wer Orks
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Help save blood bowl, foul an elf today!. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Jul 18, 2005 - 11:35 |
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| torsoboy wrote: | bb teams JanMattys
dude, you don't even have ball playing Orcs. |
You know... they were outbashed by elves so I had to retire them...
 |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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Jul 18, 2005 - 11:45 |
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try everithing you want with dark elves but a 3*DP, claw RSC chaos team will eat them like a little donut.
Chaos is the bashiest team around |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Jul 18, 2005 - 11:47 |
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Mmmmhhh
Donuts....
Dwarfs are just as bashy, imho. Chaos needs doulbes to wreak havoc. Dwarfs don't. And have av9. |
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thesquig
Joined: Apr 11, 2004
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Jul 18, 2005 - 12:00 |
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You're thinking a little too simply. When playing my bashy teams (especially chaos dwarfs) I will not mark your players one on one. That would not be good play, 1on1 chaos dwarfs are only as strong as elves. I will mark your players with several of mine, in a net like fashion I suppose, cornering some of the more important players in lots of TZ. This makes it impossible for you to dodge out and get 4-5 2 dice blocks a turn, because you're in a net of TZ with mutiple guard.
Dark elves are the toughest of the elf teams, but they are in no way bashy and if you tried to play them as so, you'd not likely win most of your games. |
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Captain1821
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
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Jul 18, 2005 - 12:36 |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Jul 18, 2005 - 12:44 |
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Well, you face Dread's Flings and expect survival?
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