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Ranked rules discriminates against stunties!
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Poll
Should the TS difference rule go?
Yes! Stunties need fair odds more than anyone else.
19%
 19%  [ 24 ]
No, all stunties should be relegated to Stunty Leeg.
11%
 11%  [ 14 ]
I don't care.
17%
 17%  [ 21 ]
This poll is stupid.
51%
 51%  [ 63 ]
Total Votes : 122


Eddy



Joined: Aug 04, 2004
Post   Posted: Sep 21, 2005 - 13:17 Reply with quote Back to top
because a +ST stunty makes a much better blitzer than you have at your disposal. and it makes him harder to hit, thus increasing his survivability. and i disagree that you don't need stronger players because you are surrounded by weaklings. first because you're offsetting a natural inconvenient, second because, with Dodge and their ability to reposition themselves, stunties are not so easy to bring down than it seems. so there WILL be many situations where it will lock a situation (especially when the other weaklings have sidestep/diving tackle). last, i'd rather have one +ST than 3 JU, no hesitation o.O

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JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004
Post   Posted: Sep 21, 2005 - 13:22 Reply with quote Back to top
Taking +ST: Valid tactic or cheesy exploit?
Wink

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The_Mighty_Ren



Joined: Oct 12, 2004
Post   Posted: Sep 21, 2005 - 13:27 Reply with quote Back to top
Skrofler wrote:
Nah. That sounds like work. It would also be pointless since there are thousands of teams which means you could easily find an example to support almost any case.
I've argued my case and the teams are all out there for anyone to watch. Look up any team with a TS of about 165 and I could beat that team. I'll have some trouble against elves and I'll probably win against a skilled dwarf coach only once out of five. Other than that almost any team would be a good match up.


Ok. Make a U stunty team, join the League of Heroic Failure, prove your point AND win an imaginary Hat.

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Arcon



Joined: Mar 01, 2004
Post   Posted: Sep 21, 2005 - 14:28 Reply with quote Back to top
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=player&player_id=1640969
This is my favorite blitzer, 6 cas in 23 games. I wonder what he would do with St 3...
origami



Joined: Oct 14, 2003
Post   Posted: Sep 22, 2005 - 01:36 Reply with quote Back to top
I agree with some of the above comments - make a [U] goblin team and play some of those matches. That will give you the evidence to back up your arguments. If you say that it's too much work, well...if you're not willing to put the effort into proving your point, then I'm not going to put the effort into listening to any more of them.

You do sound like BigMac. In fact, with the fact that BigMac hasn't been posting lately, I had actually begun wondering if he hadn't just created a new acount under your name...

Also, as I have plenty of [U] teams, but few [R] ones, it will give me a chance to slap your gobbos around a bit at those even TR matches that you desire. Wink
Thomcat



Joined: Jul 20, 2004
Post   Posted: Oct 25, 2005 - 13:23 Reply with quote Back to top
Skrofler wrote:
Ranked rules discriminates against stunties.
My goblins are quite often forced to give handicap in ranked games. Why? Because of the team strength difference rule.

Goblin teams have commonly about 30 points lower TS than TR. Certain races at approximately 150 TR commonly have 10-15 points higher TS than TR. Since the rules states that I can not play teams with more than +40 TS the consequences are as obvious as they are discriminating.
I have to play lower TR teams or teams with a lot of serious injuries in order to get a game.
To make things worse, one of these races is Lizardmen which is a race that goblins have no natural advantage against. The other races I have observed showing this pattern are undead and necromancer.

Now, the league designers probably think that a 150 TR stunty team is much worse off than any equally rated team and that TS should represent this. However, as long as handicap is based on TR this is utterly irrelevant for me as a goblin coach. I really want to continue playing in ranked because of the impression that there are more skilled and motivated coaches there.
To the administrators: Please get rid of this discriminating system and let me compete at fair odds in ranked.


I can´t really see the discrimination - they can play there right ?

And they have their own league - and Ranked teams are "discriminated" from playing there at all. So don´t expect they get the advantages in Ranked.

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Telcontar



Joined: Nov 12, 2004
Post   Posted: Oct 25, 2005 - 13:58 Reply with quote Back to top
In my opinion the TS rules is very good cose it is the best defence against cherrypicking.

But actualy i would like to see change in the client that calculates handicaps on TS not TR. why?

well if Ts is the predictability of who will win the match you should give the handicaps to the team that HAS the lower chances to win. This does not apply to stunties only but to all teams.

Why does a battered team with Tr/TS 200/150 give away handicaps to a team with 160 / 170 ? i think this rule is the rule that discriminates.

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JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004
Post   Posted: Oct 25, 2005 - 14:15 Reply with quote Back to top
TR is LRB wise.

TS is not.

Ranked follows the LRB as close as it is possible.

Full stop.

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Telcontar



Joined: Nov 12, 2004
Post   Posted: Oct 25, 2005 - 14:24 Reply with quote Back to top
JanMattys wrote:
TR is LRB wise.

TS is not.

Ranked follows the LRB as close as it is possible.

Full stop.


Sorry but this is B**S**T

Tr is LRb

TS is not

Ranked follows TS in gamefinding and game verifying when difference is over 40 TS.

Get rid of TS on fumbbl if you claim LRB here

Full STOP

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MiBasse



Joined: Dec 04, 2004
Post   Posted: Oct 25, 2005 - 14:31 Reply with quote Back to top
TS merely regulates which matches you can play in [R] and is a factor in the calculation of CR and your Championship standing. TR is a factor which has a direct effect on in-game mechanics, something which FUMBBL has no interest in messing with in Ranked.
Telcontar



Joined: Nov 12, 2004
Post   Posted: Oct 25, 2005 - 14:49 Reply with quote Back to top
RedFish wrote:
TS merely regulates which matches you can play in [R] and is a factor in the calculation of CR and your Championship standing. TR is a factor which has a direct effect on in-game mechanics, something which FUMBBL has no interest in messing with in Ranked.


You can play a team with 100 TS diff in R it will just not be uploaded

The only ingame mechanic the TR is used is the handicap calculation (which we are talking about) and the winnings calculation.

Its a single line of code we are talking about. Like others e.g. the line were the 40 TS diff will stop the successful upload.

And if we are allowing one good (imho) house rule like TS we should think about other house rules too, that would make it even harder to cherrypick.
Because i think playing a teams with Tr 200/150 with a team with 148/150, thus getting 4 handicaps under the current set of houserules, is cherrypicking

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Telcontar



Joined: Nov 12, 2004
Post   Posted: Oct 25, 2005 - 15:02 Reply with quote Back to top
Oh forgot to add that in the upcoming Vault rules or Proposed LRB rules a new TV will be implemented which is basically very close to our TS. Note that it says "...of the players that will play for the team in its next match" which would mean that players MNG are not counted towards the handicap/inducement.

Team Value
In League matches the ‘value’ of a team affects whether it receives Inducements for playing a match (see pages 35 to 36)
and if it suffers from Spiralling Expenses (see page 37). The value of a team (often abbreviated to ‘TV’) is worked out by
adding up the cost of the players that will play for the team in its next match, including extra costs for improvements, to the cost of
coaching staff, team re-rolls, fan factor, and any gold in the treasury. Record the value of your team in the appropriate space
on the team roster. Note that gold in the bank and any players that are missing the game due to injury do not count towards the team’s value.

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vanGorn



Joined: Feb 24, 2004
Post   Posted: Oct 25, 2005 - 15:05 Reply with quote Back to top
Telcontar wrote:


You can play a team with 100 TS diff in R it will just not be uploaded


I heard rumours about coaches who would regard it as waste of time when they play a match which doesn't upload. Shocked

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MrMojo



Joined: Apr 17, 2004
Post   Posted: Oct 25, 2005 - 15:07 Reply with quote Back to top
I heard rumours that this thread was just as interesting as my posts.

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Macavity



Joined: Nov 23, 2004
Post   Posted: Oct 25, 2005 - 15:22 Reply with quote Back to top
Actually, Mojo, even this thread is slightly better than your posts. Wink (not a compiment to the thread) Razz

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