Smess
Joined: Feb 13, 2004
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 Posted:
Oct 10, 2005 - 10:01 |
 
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Good suggestion, but pretty hard to monitor it seems to me.
I'll probably join, as I already follow such guidelines. Looks like I already was an elder without knowing it 
If you are the a good coach, you should be the one looking for challenging games, and hence play more up in rating than down and give handicaps away more often than recieving them. There is no honour in winning easy game after easy game to boost your ranking.
BTW circular, 175+ CR is a good criterium, you wouldn't wanna make it to easy, eh. Fewer coaches means less monitoring for you. Yay elitarism !! |
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Mr_Launcher
Joined: Dec 27, 2003
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Oct 10, 2005 - 12:05 |
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If I wanted to cherrypick to get a better CR, I don't see why I would choose to play low CR coaches. Winning over them only increases my CR very little, but if I loose (and bad luck can always make this happen), my CR will drop very much.
The same thing applies to TS. The only way to increase CR by cherrypicking is to have a team that is made to defeat teams of a certain type, and then only play against teams of that type. |
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Smess
Joined: Feb 13, 2004
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Oct 10, 2005 - 12:44 |
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| Mr_Launcher wrote: | If I wanted to cherrypick to get a better CR, I don't see why I would choose to play low CR coaches. Winning over them only increases my CR very little, but if I loose (and bad luck can always make this happen), my CR will drop very much.
The same thing applies to TS. The only way to increase CR by cherrypicking is to have a team that is made to defeat teams of a certain type, and then only play against teams of that type. |
True, the most effective way is designing your team towards defeating certain races. But if you do this and combine it with playing lower coaches, and rarely one over 160, its even more effective, because you'll hardly lose at all, and hence you keep going up. Plus you get loads of easy spp, because of the many 3-0, 4-0 wins.
How anyone could find this fun beats the hell out of me, but it happens more than it should. |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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Oct 10, 2005 - 14:43 |
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| Tinkywinky wrote: | I agree that post count is way more important than CR.  |
That's why I am the best on fumbbl.
 |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 10, 2005 - 14:49 |
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well my CR is 168.33 currently,don't know if I could break a 175 cap (but I play so few ranked game anyway something like 5 in the last 2 month if I remember well).
I like the idea but how many will enter in the circle? This is questionnable! |
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Cloggy
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
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Oct 10, 2005 - 15:07 |
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The circle itself is less important than the thought behind it.
It's kind of sad that some of the best coaches in our community are simply labelled "cherrypickers". It shows a lack of appreciation for the amount of skill some of these guys have. I have played against some of the prospective members of this group. Regardless of the results of these games I was always left with the feeling that with equal luck they would beat me in most games.
A set of groundrules like this will separate the really good coaches, whose games we should all watch to learn, from Sarumanthewhite and his kind.
I like the idea, even though I will probably never become a member  |
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Wizard
Joined: Jul 09, 2004
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Oct 10, 2005 - 15:08 |
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| Quote: |
- Hiring stars or wizards before the game without either telling your opponent or stating with a large fond "This team will use its treasury. Ask about it before agreeing on the match." on the bottom line of your teambio.
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This is a silly rule because it is almost the equivelant of match fixing.
Hiring stars/wizards is part of the post game sequence (after accepting the game) and is allowed because telling your opponent that you will not use your cash before the game is almost the same as agreeing not to foul. Unfortunatly you cant hire wizards/stars in the client, so the post match sequence part of the LRB (besides determining crowd) seems to be conveniatly ignored by a majority of the players on this site.
I understand thats why the acctual site rules do not forbid this.
Overall a great idea though Circular.
1. Pre-Match Sequence
1. Hire Freebooters, Wizards & Star Players <----------Right Here! Use the rules people!
2. Roll on Weather table
3. Work out the Gate
4. Work out Handicap
5. Roll on Handicap table
6. Roll for Niggling Injuries
2. The Match
1. Receiving Team Turn
2. Kicking Team Turn
Etc...
3. Post-Match Sequence
1. Work out each team’s winnings
2. Allocate MVPs and make Star Player rolls
3. Roll on the Fan Factor table
4. Hire new players and coaching staff
5. Work out new team rating |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 10, 2005 - 15:24 |
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| Quote: |
If I wanted to cherrypick to get a better CR, I don't see why I would choose to play low CR coaches. Winning over them only increases my CR very little, but if I loose (and bad luck can always make this happen), my CR will drop very much.
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Well you would be surprised I guess at how many top coaches do in fact do this. A 90-5 record against inferior coaches STILL drives up CR. Of course you have to win at a 80% or better clip. That % in itself is a pretty good indicator of a low CR cherry picker. |
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Laviak
Joined: Jul 19, 2004
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Oct 10, 2005 - 15:35 |
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Wizard: As I'm sure you are well aware, in tabletop matches, you can normally hire a wizard/star in response to the other person hiring one. Hence, it is polite to tell your opponent so that he/she has a chance to do the same.
At the same time, hiring stars/wizards is no excuse for refusing a match (which I'm sure has happened more than once). Hey, even my flings have been refused a match of 30TS difference because they had extra ingredients (even with no trees) ... |
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Mr_Launcher
Joined: Dec 27, 2003
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Oct 10, 2005 - 15:44 |
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| Mully wrote: | | Well you would be surprised I guess at how many top coaches do in fact do this. |
That's probably because they are better at the game than how FUMBBL calculates CR. I e, they would have had just as high CR if they didn't cherrypick against low CR coaches.
| Mully wrote: | | A 90-5 record against inferior coaches STILL drives up CR. Of course you have to win at a 80% or better clip. That % in itself is a pretty good indicator of a low CR cherry picker. |
A 95% win record against inferior coaches only increases CR if the CR formula believes that the win probability is less than 95%. If the CR formula accurately calculates the win probability to 95%, the 5% of the time you loose will reduce your CR back to where you started. If the CR formula overestimates your probability, you will loose CR by cherrypicking lower CR coaches.
This reasoning applies regardless how many percent of the matches you win. |
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MrMojo
Joined: Apr 17, 2004
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Oct 10, 2005 - 15:44 |
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I try to cherrypick teams, not coaches. It's somehow more reasonable and you minimize your CR loss, if you happen to lose to a higher CR coach. I've lost once to a coach over ten points weaker CR than I had. It was a rookie rumble and he got lucky, Dropped 7 POINTS my CR, it did. |
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Mr_Launcher
Joined: Dec 27, 2003
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Oct 10, 2005 - 16:36 |
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| Smess wrote: | | But if you do this and combine it with playing lower coaches, and rarely one over 160, its even more effective, because you'll hardly lose at all, and hence you keep going up. |
The point is that the few times you do loose against low CR coaches, you loose so much CR that it cancels out the victories.
| Smess wrote: | | Plus you get loads of easy spp, because of the many 3-0, 4-0 wins. |
Collecting SPPs doesn't give you any CR advantage, because when your team gets better due to new skills, your TS goes up, which means that you'll gain less CR in future matches. |
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HollowOne
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
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Oct 10, 2005 - 17:47 |
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I respect CircularLogic's intentions; however, I think CR 175 is a little high. It means (right now) only 38 coaches on fumbbl can apply; at CR 170, that means a pool of 105 applicants and it makes it that much closer for us humble 165 coaches to aspire to. |
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HollowOne
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 10, 2005 - 18:19 |
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| Wizard wrote: | | This is a silly rule because it is almost the equivelant of match fixing. |
That depends upon your point of view; the purpose of this Circle of Elders is to create an "elite" core of players who will play according to a certain code created to defy the accusation of being cherrypickers and to set an example. From this perspective, it is thus wise to adopt the opposite tactics of cherrypickers.
Hence the rule is there to discourage hiring Starplayers "on the sly" because it's perceived by some people as a cherrypicking tactic. Of course, one can argue "it's legal and in the rules", which is true, but not every inexperienced coach is aware of that; hence the perception.
In short, the issue reduces to one question: if an "Elder" were to hire a Starplayer on the sly, would this contribute to a negative image of that coach being a cherrypicker? Unless you can answer that with a resounding "no", then the rule isn't silly so much as foresight. |
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Tymless
Joined: Jul 01, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 10, 2005 - 18:37 |
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I onle have one question. By statistics alone. wouldnt a high cr player almost always be playing a lower cr player just because there are so few high cr players? |
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