Posted by panalukidis on 2018-04-29 13:18:17

I would love to have/see a civil discussion about it with you, but i can't see the bloody team (and therefore what you wrote)!

Posted by panalukidis on 2018-04-29 13:18:52

ps i didnt report it as i've never seen it

Posted by Crapula on 2018-04-29 13:31:55

I do not think that fumbbl is a very suitable forum for discussions of faith. Name could be interpreted as a joke (and even blasphemy as such), attempt to use fumbbl as a tool to convert people (not a right place for that) or anything between. Personally i would take it as a joke and it would not offend me but I could easily see such arguments reasonable.

Posted by koadah on 2018-04-29 13:43:13

Religion & politics. Sure to end badly.

Posted by SzieberthAdam on 2018-04-29 13:53:44

There is nothing wrong with your team, I see no offence there. There are many worse themed teams around.

Recently I also feel contradiction by playing a symbolically bloody game with my non- or anti-violent beliefs whihc almost led me to drop playing BB entirely. Note that I am still pretty close to that.

Despite it is one of the greatest games by looking at its mechanics, it is still hard to accommodate BB with superior ethics.

Posted by PeteW on 2018-04-29 14:01:30

Oooo. It's been approved again! (box woodies). How long until it is reported again? xD

Posted by Rags on 2018-04-29 14:05:51

It's completely inappropriate. Greeting everyone you meet with 'Repent!' is telling/commanding them directly to renounce their beliefs and accept yours. I'm not religious myself so it doesn't matter to me, but a devout person of another faith might well be offended.

The real question here is how dare you? Jesus Christ is not my lord. I hope that doesn't offend you, but I am disappointed that you brought it up.

Posted by panalukidis on 2018-04-29 14:16:35

Ok I just read the team bio. As a person born, raised and living in Rome under Catholic/Christian beliefs, I feel few people have more right to have an opinion on this than me. The Church has sistematically held down/back any intellectual progress in this city/country, and continues to do so. I wholeheartedly agree that any such rants should be kept the f* away from bloodbowl, although I would not have reported it, as censoring it makes me the same as them. You are free to believe what you want, in your blissful 'ignorance', but please forgive me if I trust more in Nuffle when I am on Fumbbl. Each to their own lord :)

Posted by neubau on 2018-04-29 14:20:36

The team name per se isn't so bad, but the bio text is borderline insulting to me. I'm not anti-religous per se, but I strongly believe faith should be a very private thing and openly proselytizing on a hobby website is absolutely nothing I want to see here. This is exactly as inappropriate as a team "MAGA! Trump is God Emperor!" would be that had a pro-Trump message in its bio.

If you want to talk about your faith then write a blog and link it in your bio, but don't force it on people who will be randomly picked against you in a hobby game.

That said, team reported.

Posted by Strider84 on 2018-04-29 14:58:10

U ignored the clear message from nuffle by giving your kroxi -st in the first game an created a woodie team with the same name? How can he be more clear, he s the one and only in blood bowl

Posted by Dominik on 2018-04-29 15:08:07

Probably the problem is that you stated that he is a Lord to everyone instead for you personally.

Posted by Zabriskie69 on 2018-04-29 15:11:47

"god belief and alcohol are the same scourge" F Nietzsche
so keep your faith for you and respect the smart people who know that god does not exist

Posted by SzieberthAdam on 2018-04-29 15:44:54

@Dominik I would like to point that only a demigod can be such a Lord, the supreme god must be the Lord to everyone. If one accepts Jesus as the embodiment of the supreme god, one could not believe otherwise.

A different thing is that each church worships their own person(s) only and hardly accepts the ones from the other churches. Note that the deeper you dig in the gnostic/mystic/esoteric ways of the various religions the more similar they become. If churches could agree upon the common, there would be more peace on earth.

Posted by JackassRampant on 2018-04-29 17:12:42

You're a great coach and a great guy, Pete.

But please keep your religion out of my Blood Bowl.

I didn't report you, and I wouldn't have, because it's not necessarily OFFENSIVE. To each his own and all that. But I get flashbacks to high school, and the discrimination I faced at the hands of people who were desperately afraid that I was going to Hell and they would be going with me if they didn't do everything in their power to convert me to their personal brands of Christianity. So when people start proselytizing to me, I get really defensive.

Posted by SpecialOne on 2018-04-29 17:12:46

I feel this team bio is crossing some line.

Posted by Civ on 2018-04-29 17:38:15

There is only one true god worthy of worship, and that is the holy Nuffle! \o/

But seriously, I don't see any issue with your team. I have a team with a Satanic theme, never been reported or even remarked on.

Posted by erased000019 on 2018-04-29 17:41:45

Did you know, the world's greatest Blood Bowl player is ALSO a Christian? Fun fact!

Posted by Augustine on 2018-04-29 18:20:27

I read that bio and thought it was just weird fluff, as no one actually believes this stuff in 2018 now 'science' has happened do they? Anyway couldnt be less offended. Not sure anyone would want fumbbl teams to degenerate too much into religious/political recruitment though.

And of course Jesus famously came back as a zombie in the books he is in. So this fluff kind of works in BB world.

Posted by PeteW on 2018-04-29 18:34:39

Interesting mixed comments. Bit sad that it upsets and offends some people as the intention in the team bio is clearly meant as a positive thing.

I can understand why the team name is not great, but it is Jesus who commands people to Repent, not me.

Also, I can't convert anyone, only God can do that. ;p

Posted by ArrestedDevelopment on 2018-04-29 18:37:42

I am going to report this team every time i see it simply because fumbbl does not need another PeteW woodie team that will inevitably roll about 4 AG+ !!!

Posted by neubau on 2018-04-29 18:50:39

@PeteW: I like to spec your games and you're certainly not a bad person, quite the contrary actually! But some things simply have no place in a hobby enviroment like this. Being forced to play 60+ minutes against a team that clearly tries to proselytize is probably very annoying to some. That goes for every religion, ideology, political affiliation etc. I couldn't care less about what Jesus commands, just like you probably don't care about the commands of Mohammed, Buddha or Zeus.

Writing that you are religious in your "About" section, or writing blogs about your faith is not a problem at all, though i still think it is not the right place for this. But in Box others are forced to play you who won't see your attempts as a positive thing.

Posted by koadah on 2018-04-29 19:08:11

@PeteW: Some of us have already had a lifetime's worth of this. We come here for a nice bit of R & R. If we want this kind of thing we know where to find it.

You could at least have made it a Ranked team so that people had the option of avoiding it.

Posted by SzieberthAdam on 2018-04-29 19:42:15

@Augustine

“The history of science is the history of human errors. There is no reason to be ashamed about this, because everybody knows that one learns from one's mistakes. But the absurd thing is that each generation is absolutely certain that errors were committed only in the past. Every age, therefore, believes itself to have found the absolute and final truth and will not be shaken in this conviction. In this respect, science commands a strength of faith that surpasses that of every religious sect.”

Thorwald Dethlefsen

http://challengeoffate.blogspot.com/2011/09/esotericism-non-scientific-way-to.html

Posted by Verminardo on 2018-04-29 19:51:57

You do whatever makes you happy bro, but you have no business telling me what to do. As for your bio, you are at best naive, at worst deliberate with the buttons you may be pushing. Many people have been traumatized in the name of Christianity, I am sure you are aware. Oh, I'm sure you've worked it all out for yourself how that isn't at all what *you* see as Christianity but that is really the last thing those people want to hear about and you really shouldn't be trying to tell them.

Name your team whatever the hell you want though.

Posted by Gozer_the_Gozerian on 2018-04-29 20:02:28

Which one is Jesus again? The one with the horns and the pitchfork?

Posted by PeteW on 2018-04-29 20:03:09

Okay - happy to listen to what people have to say.

I've asked the staff to change the team name to remove the word "repent", as I get that sounds like me trying to tell you what to do. Fair point.

I've also reworked the team bio a bit to try to explain my point of view better and come across less commanding.

And if people get drawn against me in the Box and have to play the team, then the name and player names won't offend them at all, and no-one has to read the team bio if they don't want to.

:D

Posted by Gozer_the_Gozerian on 2018-04-29 20:04:51

Perhaps you could change your bio to these sweet lyrics from South Park:
The Body of Christ! Sleek swimmer's body, all muscled up and toned!
The Body of Christ! O, Lord Almighty, I wish I could call it my own!
Lord Almighty ooh, I've never been so enticed!
Oh I wish I could have the body of Christ!

Posted by koadah on 2018-04-29 20:26:25

You could just delete the fucking team.

Posted by SzieberthAdam on 2018-04-29 20:38:26

Is counteroffence constructive?

Posted by erased000019 on 2018-04-29 20:44:28

How insecure this makes people is the absolute best possible evidence that what Pete believes is actually true : )

Posted by mrt1212 on 2018-04-29 20:50:26

Beware PeteW, I may create a Necro team in Box to convert your pious elves into unrepentant sinners ;)

Posted by neubau on 2018-04-29 20:57:41

@morehouse: id say the same if this team was called praise allah. also calling people who suffered under religious prejudice/violence (what was mentioned a bunch here) "insecure" is insulting.

Posted by erased000019 on 2018-04-29 21:05:55

It was meant to be insulting. Someone telling you what they believe is not violent or prejudicial at all. If you are bothered by it enough to try and stop him from being able to speak on it, you ARE insecure.

Posted by panalukidis on 2018-04-29 21:06:25

Posted by morehouse on 2018-04-29 20:44:28
How insecure this makes people is the absolute best possible evidence that what Pete believes is actually true : )

erm...how?

Posted by Bloodfeast on 2018-04-29 21:13:11

Well, everything in a religion offends everyone that belives in another religion..... Delete em all :)

Posted by neubau on 2018-04-29 21:14:20

morehouse the problem is not that he told us what he believes, he has had that in his "about" already and nobody gives a fuck. the problem is a team that says repent! and tries to force religious doctrine down others throats. i don't care if its christian, muslim, stalinist or right wing extremist ideology, it has nothing to do here on a fun hobby site like this.

he also asked for a discussion, getting negative replies has nothing to do with being insecure.

Posted by erased000019 on 2018-04-29 21:21:47

Because if this was just some silly thing you don't believe in you would let it go. If somebody made a team trying to convince you that Bigfoot was real, you would just laugh and move on. The fact that people telling you Jesus is real upsets you and you can't stand to look at it says a lot about your confidence, or lack thereof, in your own beliefs.

Posted by Gozer_the_Gozerian on 2018-04-29 21:26:28

Repenting is great and all, but don't forget to sin, or else Jesus died for nothing.

Posted by koadah on 2018-04-29 21:27:51

How many people have been murdered in Bigfoot's name?

How many children did Bigfoot bugger?

Posted by panalukidis on 2018-04-29 21:28:32

@morehouse

bigfoot believers do not have a say in state, national and global affairs and politics, they are not tax exempt, they do not threaten the poor, badly educated and ignorant with eternal damnation for not abiding by their rules

Posted by erased000019 on 2018-04-29 21:29:48

*Christianity* is an idea. An idea has never murdered or buggered anyone. Pete's team bio is saying the idea is true. It is not saying everybody who claims to believe that idea is a good person or has always done right.

Posted by erased000019 on 2018-04-29 21:31:49

Aaaaand also folks in recent human history, anti-religious groups who want to reduce freedom of religious expression have murdered quite a few people. Careful you don't start to sound like Stalinists here yourself right? : )

Posted by Dominik on 2018-04-29 21:33:33

Lol neubau, sick of the return of growing abrahamic followers in Austria since the cristianization ~1600 years ago?
Whatever sub-group it is, it does nothing good to a society.

Posted by SzieberthAdam on 2018-04-29 21:47:39

@Koadah

If you will be executed because you made more people involved with this bloody game but then times change and blood bowl becomes the gladiator games of the future and millions will get murdered in your name will that make you a worse person today?

Some may will still play only the tabletop game and remember you and your 145 club with good heart.

Plus Jesus was no child abuser as I was told.

Posted by koadah on 2018-04-29 21:56:25

No one is saying that he can't worship whatever he wants.

I don't see why he should be throwing it in people's faces on a blood bowl site.

Posted by SerenadeOfSorrow on 2018-04-29 22:04:33

each to there own .....someone somewhere will always get offended by something we live in a generation of snowflakes

Posted by Gozer_the_Gozerian on 2018-04-29 22:19:18

Okay, Pete, I have read what you said and after careful consideration I have decided to accept your proposal. But you are going to have to sweeten the pot a little, I mean, some other religions are offering me forty virgins. If you want me to convert I will accept no less than 50 virgins. That seems fair.

Posted by Sp00keh on 2018-04-29 22:32:17

downvoted because the team bio is far too preachy

Posted by PeteW on 2018-04-29 22:56:31

And to the person who just pressed "report"...

It is usually polite to check if they are in game first. My net kicked me off and now I can't rejoin the game.... so my opponent is having to wait!!

Posted by Civ on 2018-04-29 23:07:14

Seems ironic how disrespectful some people are being because they feel Pete isn't respecting them :/

Posted by Sp00keh on 2018-04-29 23:12:17

if you knew how reporting 'usually' works, why would you try and play with that team, knowing it is controversial?

that's impolite to your opponent


i'm sure you're a lovely bloke but the more i think about the 'repent!' stuff as a team theme, the more annoying it is

Posted by Sp00keh on 2018-04-29 23:15:45

best comment in this thread so far, is Rags who gets it completely right:

"It's completely inappropriate. Greeting everyone you meet with 'Repent!' is telling/commanding them directly to renounce their beliefs and accept yours.
[...]

The real question here is how dare you? Jesus Christ is not my lord. I hope that doesn't offend you, but I am disappointed that you brought it up."

Posted by grant85 on 2018-04-29 23:31:16

oh for christ sake!

This thread just gets me thinking of other team names that would be questionable...

Posted by PeteW on 2018-04-29 23:34:26

Okay guys.

So I have removed the word 'repent' as that seemed to cause the most upset.

I have also hidden the message in a button, with a warning!

Hopefully achieving a balance of the loving message I want to share, and protecting those who get really upset by my love. <3

I don't mind the abuse. Jesus suffered far worse. ;P

Posted by MenonaLoco on 2018-04-30 03:32:08

Bah, free speech, guys!
REPENT!!! NURGLE is YOUR and EVERBODY'S LORD!!!
Now let the boots find out, who has the absolute truth!!!
In other words: religion and politics are not the best topics for a team theme but getting offended or reporting may not be the best answer. Show a bit humor and self confidence, coaches!

Posted by JackassRampant on 2018-04-30 04:26:22

@Morehouse: it's not so much that people don't like this stuff because they believe it. People don't like this stuff because it gets shoved down their throats.

Posted by PeteW on 2018-04-30 08:22:48

I suspect there is a large cultural difference between the UK and US...

Posted by Nextflux on 2018-04-30 09:30:40

rated it 1, take god gift and shove it

Posted by cdassak on 2018-04-30 11:44:36

@morehouse

Christianity is a religion, not an idea (even Wikipedia says so).

A religion that has in fact murdered (not just non-believers but even Christians of a different branch) and buggered (the Christianisation of the Americas, Skandinavian and Baltic states, why are the Dark Ages called "Dark", etc) throughout history.

Where you see "insecurity", I see "sensitivity" (hyper-sensitivity if you ask me) to religious fanatism and preachers of the "one and only Truth"

That being said, I dont find Pete's team offensive at all

Posted by Kondor on 2018-04-30 11:54:23

@PeteW

I am also Christian and started a similar team theme. However, in a game filled with demons it feels a bit sacrilegious. I will probably retire my team soon. (The problem is that it has a good record.)

Posted by Verminardo on 2018-04-30 12:58:31

Ok people can we now move on to the fun part where we create new Fumbbl memes (repent all mens?) and make up funny referential team names? Tangential question, how many snake eyes does it take to make me repent? Not as many as it takes for me to resent!

Posted by SpecialOne on 2018-04-30 14:02:52

This is a very touchy topic. I wrote further up that the team crossed some line, and I wasn't sure why. But yes. Its about commanding others to believe or think a certain way that crosses me. People can believe whatever they want, but I don't want them to shove it down my throat. Religion is a private thing in my view. We can all make fun of it, but something happens when you go from fun to serious. Just look at this tread. Pete. I think you got a bit too serious.

But some things in this tread is somewhat disturbing. Claiming Wikipedia is a source of correctness? Claiming that insecure people makes it to claim there is a god? Using science as a "new religion"? Science is based on facts, theories to undergo further investigation, ect. That is where science differs from religion. Religion is 100% based on myth and dreamers ideas. But when religions want to cut boys and girls in their private parts it gets too much for me. Doing stuff like that and not even question it? Not right to me.

Personally that we in 2018 has not moved away from religion as the thing driving us, makes me sad. I hoped we would have move on by now, but obviously not. Religions is the cause of a lot of trouble around the world, that we could have avoided without religions being here.

PeteW. Make your team, and go with peace. You are at peace with your god, and I am perfectly fine without a god in my life. :) I still remember your hospitality for me and 10 other guys could stay at your house back in the days of White Isle Star bowl!

Posted by Gozer_the_Gozerian on 2018-04-30 16:20:33

Ah yes, science flies men to the moon, religion flies them into buildings. When I first saw this team's name on the list of current games, I assumed it was made with tongue firmly planted in cheek. However, now that I know it was created without any sense of irony, I can not say that it really bothers me in the slightest. I am all for freedom of speech, and if people want to believe that the earth is only 10'000 years old, that dinosaur bones were put here to test our faith, and take their marching orders from an imaginary bearded old man in a toga that lives in the sky, more power to them.

Posted by Arktoris on 2018-04-30 18:12:25

"Ah yes, science flies men to the moon, religion flies them into buildings."

but modern science is a product of Christianity. Therefore Christianity flies men to the moon too.

Modern man has been on the planet 38,000 years before Christianity was given to us. If science was separate, wouldn't we have been sending men to the moon back in 35,000 B.C.? What stopped them? What kept all of them just crawling around in the mud? Were the laws of physics not around then to be studied?

what I find interesting is even in 2018, with science proving God's existence, we still have nonbelievers. Good ol' thermodynamics. dG demands some people have to be in the denominator. To those that choose to be there...thank you for your sacrifice.

Posted by Cloggy on 2018-04-30 18:21:01

Modern science actually comes from the Arabs I'm afraid. Why would you just assume it was Christians?

In fact Christians were the main force in holding progress back for most of modern history.

I'm very curious (and more than a little amused) about the claim that science has proved God's existence. Looking forward to the link where the scientific community concedes that point :D

Posted by cdassak on 2018-04-30 18:30:39

So are there no Jew, Muslim, Budhist,..., scientists?

Christianity burned scientists along with 'witches' back in the day...

Posted by Arktoris on 2018-04-30 19:05:57

modern science was created by the Royal Society of London, a (highly) Christian country when it was founded.

What society from the Arabs did this first? I'd be curious to know. Even if they did, that's still the God of Abraham yes?

"Looking forward to the link where the scientific community concedes that point"

I didn't say scientists, I said science. Scientists are humans like everyone else and therefore still follow the equation dG = dG(0) + lnQ where Q = spiritual man / animal man

science on the other hand, does not. Hence why scientists tend to be liberals, but science is full on conservative. Life is full of irony huh.

"Christianity burned scientists along with 'witches' back in the day"

If that were true, Newton wouldn't have survived to his 80s. Also, science would not have thrived so much more in Christian societies than the non-christian ones as they would have been weeded out instead of funded.

Posted by Arktoris on 2018-04-30 19:08:03

"So are there no Jew, Muslim, Budhist,..., scientists?"

Yes there are now...now that Christianity is influencing the whole world.

Posted by Cloggy on 2018-04-30 19:25:30

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_science

LOL at the claim that scientists from other religions exist thanks to the influence of Christians. That made my day :P

Posted by cdassak on 2018-04-30 19:30:21

Ah, good to know that, thanks

Posted by Malmir on 2018-04-30 19:38:38

'Christianity is a religion, not an idea (even Wikipedia says so).'


It doesn't any more - I just edited it.

Just kidding, but I hope you take my point.

Posted by cdassak on 2018-04-30 20:07:09

Ofc I do. It was meant as 'even wikipedia has got this right'...

Posted by Arktoris on 2018-04-30 20:08:55

"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_science"

thanks for proving my point Cloggy. When it gets to modern science, suddenly, it focuses almost exclusively scientists from Christian regions of the world.

funny how they all avoided being burned at the stake :D

A prominent scientist that shows the linking of God and physics is Robert Jastrow, one of those scientists that "flies men to the moon".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Jastrow

another one is Francis Collins, head scientist of the NIH.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Collins

anyway, I got to get back to work. Have about 50 more metabolite samples for the mass spec. Too much to say on this giant topic to type it all out. Perhaps a google hangouts meeting or discord etc for a more detailed discussion without need for an e-novel.

Peace everyone!

Posted by cdassak on 2018-04-30 20:48:21

@Arktoris
Check out who Giordano Bruno was. Funny too?

Posted by SzieberthAdam on 2018-04-30 20:54:09

Common science explores the matter. Thus scientific belief is materialism. Science is unable to explore anything related to the soul thus it ignores or refuses the being of the soul. So when you die, black page, game over, nothing. If you believe in that, how will you live your life? You become hedonist, addict, comsumer, individualist. Is that belief not a threat?

Corrupt prince, ship captain who got onto the shore in the first lifeboat, breaking families are among the signs of materialist decadency.

Posted by bigbullies on 2018-04-30 21:55:33

*said in voice of gerard butlers character leonidas from 300*
THIS IS BLOODBOWL !!
seriously though this is a game we come here to watch colored squares try hurt other colored squares and move another set of colored squares to the edge of our screens
If you choose to follow religion cool but for games sake perhaps fluff it up with some karl franz and two headed meteors or something

Posted by bigbullies on 2018-04-30 21:56:57

Sorry not real into warhammer fantasy i believe it might actually be a twin tailed comet

Posted by PurpleChest on 2018-04-30 22:34:39

PeteW I only hope you are not offended by how amusing i find your team and team name.
As long as i am free to mock you, you should be free to be mockable.

Posted by The_Murker on 2018-04-30 22:38:06

So.. the Prince of Peace, buddy what died and was all nailed up cause he loves us so much.. if you refuse to worship him, you get to burn in hell forever, yeah? Pretty good incentive. I burned myself on a stove once. Hurt like a bitch.

So my question is.. if that's the penality for not worshipping Big J, what's the penalty for not worshipping Satan? I mean, I've been told by the same well dressed yound men at my front door about the existance of both Jesus and Lucifer, so I'm thinking it would be more dangerous to be in Satan's bad books than some sandle-wearing, lovey dude, no? You get to do whatever you want, whatever you can get away with, and don't risk a penalty I'm sure must be worse than eternal fire. Big S must be able to top eternal fire, right? Eternal fire with Christian rock playing in the background? Eternal fire while wearing crocs? And you get so many real benifits straight away.. chicks, drugs, the selling of drugs for a lucrative, tax free cash flow. No waiting. Jesus is such a tough sell.

And what about the 40 virgins? (Assuming the article I read a decade ago was incorrect. It said the '40 Virgins' was likly a mis-translation, and was really meant to read 40 grapes. Ages ago that would have been a pretty sweet and tasty welcoming gift to the after-life, but after the invention of the supermarket, no so much) Hard to go against the team selling 40 virgins.

Honestly, how is a person to choose?

Posted by PeteW on 2018-04-30 23:09:01

All jokes always welcome. And hello Synn!

Posted by blocknroll on 2018-04-30 23:15:33

fumbbl was better when teams were allowed to mock Downs Syndrome instead of being pro-Christianity.

Posted by PeteW on 2018-04-30 23:20:37

Hahahaha. Despite his post, I think Christer rigged the client. My woodies have currently suffered 3 RIPs and a ST- against rookie chaos...

xD

Posted by Arktoris on 2018-05-01 01:07:24

"@Arktoris
Check out who Giordano Bruno was. Funny too?"

he was prosecuted for his heresy against the teachings of Catholicism which considering he was a friar, is pretty bad. None of his crimes talk about his science.

So how would this be any different if a scientist today was sentenced to death for mass shooting at a school?

We can sit here and cherry pick two thousand years of world wide history for fringe outlier data points or we can just simply look at the whole picture. Modern science has its origins and best home in Christian societies. If Christianity were "anti-science", why isn't the opposite true? Why does real world data contradict your claim?

Posted by Gozer_the_Gozerian on 2018-05-01 05:19:21

All joking aside, I don't see the two (science and religion) as being mutually exclusive. Let's say a supreme being or beings created the universe. He/she/it/they set things up to operate under certain rules. All that science is doing is uncovering what these rules are by observing the universe. It is unlikely that science will ever prove or disprove the existence of this being/these beings.

Posted by The_Murker on 2018-05-01 06:33:32

Why is it that when a young child is abused, or a nice woman gets chopped into bits and left in a dumpster, that it is said that God's ways are 'complex' and 'unknowable', but when people are trying to sell you on their Religion it is always a message that is so simple.

"If you choose God in Ranked he will always play you." Cute.

It's a different style of sales pitch, to be sure.. but it's still a pitch. Some versions of almost every religion, Christianilty included, are bold enough to name the actual price of membership. 15% of earnings in the Sunday collection plate, or what have you. Others are more subtle. For some, knocking on doors to 'spread the word' is not optional. When my door is knocked on in the rain at 8am on a cold Wednesday morning, that dosn't feel optional to me. Those people need to score points with their God. Perhaps more accuratly, persist with their membership drive, to generate revenue and influence for their local branch and national institution.. but some of those sorry, dumb, bastards actually believe they are scoring points with their God, getting closer to the promised land.

I'm not sure what sect or faction Pete belongs to, but if it's one of the ones that requires the spreading of the word to score after-life entry points, those are not the type of points I wish my fellow FUMBLERs were trying to score here.

Maybe it just fires out a few molecules of seratonin for him, knowing he is trying to share his faith and a 'good thing' with others. If so, it makes him still just half as weird as two thirds of people playing here. I'd rather spend 2 hours on a Sunday listening to a 'know-it-all' simplify the unknowable, then in a Games Workshop listening to a 'know-it-all' praise his own 40K tactics.

Posted by Arktoris on 2018-05-01 06:58:37

"Why is it that when a young child is abused, or a nice woman gets chopped into bits and left in a dumpster, that it is said that God's ways are 'complex' and 'unknowable'"

not sure who said that to you, but I've never heard that as an explanation. Man has free will...he does that all on his own.

God took 4 1/2 billion years making you a home with just the right amount of water, a magnetic field to shelter you from harmful radiation, the right amount of oxygen, warmth, saturated it with food everywhere, rich natural resources to build shelters and fun stuff, and scripture detailing how to use it and how to get along with each other. But someone is murdered and it's his fault???

I'm curious. When it comes to making your life great, where does his 50% end and your 50% responsibility begin?

Posted by Dominik on 2018-05-01 21:38:20

The reason why we mostly believe in a kind of god is that we do not want to die and are fully aware of our mortality.
It's narcissism that we believe.

Posted by Arktoris on 2018-05-03 19:22:37

if it were narcissism, PeteW wouldn't be trying to share salvation with you.

People believe all over the world, rejected their cultural pagan gods, and have done so for thousands of years because when you talk to God, he talks back to you.

You can feel his presence. Even his name has power. PeteW simply invokes the name of the Messiah and look how many were shaken. Try that with Horus.

Posted by Nextflux on 2018-05-04 14:11:15

Arktoris you should calm down your exitement. Having thease religious discussions is pointless, because all you claim is; just because someone dared to talk back at your religious fanatisism, that will in your mind be prof of Gods existance.

Thats exactly why religious discussions are so incredible stupid to discuss with you and others. Thats why I dont want them here, this is my free spot, where I can play and have fun. IF I wanted to return back to the regular life I can do so any time.

IT makes me angry that you think your all better than me, just because your all going to heaven. I dont care about you, your gods, I just want to be left alone with all that shit. I dont mind your religion, just waste your time going to church, pray and sing hallelujah for what I care, its your life. But dont pretend you know everything, and especially what I am thinking. You dont bring politics to sport, and you dont bring Religion to sports, why cant you respect that.

Posted by Dominik on 2018-05-04 16:30:09

Arktoris: To evangelize directly helps to secure your ticket to heaven. It is a sign of strong belief and helps you to stay in devotion to your god. Narcissm was the wrong word but certainly evangelization is about caring for yourself.

Posted by PeteW on 2018-05-04 17:48:04

Dominic: That is a common misconception, confusing Christianity with many other religions. For the Christian, they are saved by Jesus' death on the cross, and given a place in heaven as a free gift. The Christian tries to do good, and to tell others about Jesus, not to earn anything, but out of gratitude to God. The Christian has everything already - there is nothing left to earn.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians%202:1-10&version=NIV

Posted by Dominik on 2018-05-05 05:22:47

You can always return to God but also you can always leave him, Evangelization helps to stay with god, so much it is known by the Bible.

Posted by Nightbird on 2018-05-20 04:45:29

I recommend this 1st book, in a new series,
'The Rational Bible, Exodus' by Dennis Prager.

Posted by Nightbird on 2018-05-20 04:47:16

Also,
'The Jefferson Bible, Smithsonian Edition: The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth'