I love theory crafting, and discussing balance issues, and identifying why you can't just change things.
I love looking at the rosters, and trying to identify why game designers think those teams make good gameplay, and why one particular design gets chosen when it doesn't seem to be balanced.
I loved looking at the team creation guidelines, and trying my hand at building teams - and realizing just how easy it is to use those rules to make ridiculously good teams.
I want to build a league where everyone gets to design their own team.
So I'm trying to build a much more comprehensive set of rules than the current team creation guidelines.
I currently have ~80 rules that appear to be followed. I've identified a few areas where I'd like to simply change the current rule (for instance, I would allow the ogre team to have 0-8 ogres, although I'm not planning to incorporate the new rules like disposable player.)
All other teams I can identify seemingly reasonable rules for how the teams were designed, and modify those rules for use in a customizable league as I'm suggesting.
I'm looking for 5-10 individuals who might be similarly interested. This would start out as only pm discussions, or discord chats. But if consensus could be found for rules and how to build teams, I would eventually actually build a league for people to play their own customized teams.
Note, many of the current teams can't be built exactly in such a setting. The rules to allow things like wardancers or dwarf blockers allow for much more abusive players - to allow full customization I also have to penalize people who design such players.
That is not to say that you couldn't have a wardancer, but it wouldn't be identical to the current player.
If you're interested in such discussions, please leave a message here, or send me a PM.
I'm in EST timezone in case you want to find me on discord.
The rules are based around the idea that Strength, Agility, and Movement is generally worth more than most teams currently pay; and that you shouldn't be able to build a strong player (in terms of skills) that is cheaper than skilling a player up with the same skills. If the skills aren't worth choosing on the player when they skill up, then it's fine for the skills to be cheaper than it would cost to skill up (as otherwise, they are simply never chosen). But if they would be chosen, then they shouldn't be cheaper on roster creation without some kind of limits. The player still gets 'free' skill slots by gaining them, so even if they still cost the same as skilling up, they still come out ahead.
But why don't there seem to be the discounts for expensive players and the inflation on the cheap ones, that is built into the 'officially unofficial roster design guidelines'? And why is the base cost of a human lineman 60k?
I'm specifically trying to avoid those discounts and inflations. those are only good if EVERY team uses them, in the same amount. otherwise, a team that gets discounts for expensive players.. effectively just gets discounts. Similarly, a team that gets inflations for cheap players, effectively is just having an inflated team cost.
So that's the cornerstone of where the base costing change comes from. In order to price snotlings correctly, i needed more space between 0 and the base cost. The second cornerstone of where the base costing change comes from is that +Agi must be worth more than 20k; but with the base costing, that makes elves too expensive compared to the base. So by increasing the base, i can make +Agi worth 30k, BUT the relative cost of an elf compared to the base stays almost the same (+50% where it used to be +40%)
the final piece is that re-rolls are generally considered bad value for their cost. so by increasing base cost of players, i'm indirectly increasing the value of a re-roll
The maximums put in place in my ruleset (particularly regarding ST, MA, and Block) give easy places to point out if a team hasn't reached those maximums. People who do meet them should be in the tier 1-1.5 range. So people who don't meet them blatantly, I can point them out and say 'you may want to consider increasing this on this player' without expecting them to become problematic.
what i'd really like to have though is stats on win rates by team, on an environment like blackbox, but where we only include games where the loser is cr 160+, after accounting for the results of that match (or if a draw, both coaches)
with stats like that, it would be much easier to actually include the assumption 'assuming equal coaching skill' when determining how well a team actually performs, as the pricing SHOULD be based on that assumption. but the pricing is also (loosely, because i don't have that assumption available) supposed to be based on actual win rates of the teams
without those stats, i feel like wood elf pricing is where it should be.. ish (since its still a draft, it might not be exact, but its in the ballpark). dwarves, i feel is too high, but its hard to say how much. not a huge amount (to be exact: the amount its off is less than 10k per lineman). and i accept it being too high because it makes a better ruleset for creating new rosters. chaos pact renegades is noticeably too high (more than 10k per lineman). chaos and nurgle are too high at low tv, but that's due to team design, and i've chosen to make them pay for being good at high tv, instead of giving them slack for being bad at low tv as the core ruleset does.
We need more granularity to allow for better pricing of cheap players.
Therefore the baseline player is:
6/3/3/8 G = 60k Price
Teams start with 1.2 million.
All games give an extra 10k winnings.
Teams may have up to 8 positionals. If the team 0-16 players, and at least 8 positionals, and the big guy, all reduce max speed by 1, they may have up to 12 positionals. If a team has a positional with no more than 2 STR and no more than 3 agi, they may get 2 extra positionals with the same strength, agi, cost, and skill access.
Teams may have multiple 0-16 players (which do not count as positionals) as long as all of these players have the same skill access, same cost, same Str, and same Agi.
For all team restrictions based on stats, players with ball & chain and secret weapon do not count as having either +Agi or +Str. For instance, maximum number of big guys is not impacted by the presence of a secret weapon ball & chain. Personal restrictions are still kept. For example a S7 ball & chain secret weapon may not start with Block.
Big guys are not positionals.
STR 3+ teams can have 1 big guy.
Str 2 linos with no other str 4+ or agi 4 players can have 2 big guys.
Str 2 linos with no other str 3+ or agi 4 players can have 3 big guys.
Str 1 linos with no other str 2+ or agi 4 players can have 8 big guys.
If a team has more than 1 big guy, then those big guys count towards the maximum number of positionals a team can have. When counting towards the maximum number of positionals, big guys may choose not to start with Loner.
Players with bloodlust may go beyond the limit on number of players with +STR or +agi, but they still limit how many non bloodlust players may have those stat increases. (So a team can have as many vampires as it wants, but if an orc team added two vampires, it would need to give up to BoBs to do so.)
Big guys must have:
• STR 5+
• Really stupid or bonehead or wild animal or take root or secret weapon
• Claw or mighty blow or grab
• AV 8+
Big Guys may not have A or P access. (Note that no Str 5+ may have G access)
No player can have more than 22 when summing all 4 of their stats, including big guys, or players with bloodlust or no hands.
Agi can't be less than MA-5.
Teams with Agi 3 linemen can have up to 4 positionals with plus STR or plus agi, or 2 STR 5 positionals
A team can't have both +STR and +agi, except players with Bloodlust may have both.
If a team with agi 3 linemen has 4 str 4 players or 2 str 5 players, and all of those players follow all the other rules for big guy creation (loner, negatrait, minimum armor, and a 'bash' skill), and all of the other positionals have animosity, then the team can also have 1 agi 4 positional (which will need to be one of the ones with animosity).
STR 2 linos and no str 3 positionals can have 2 extra plus STR or plus agi positionals.
Teams with no agi 3+ players can have 4 STR 5 positionals instead of the 4 str 4 players or 2 str 5 players.
A team can't have Agi 5 players (this needs some exceptions, such as secret league's ethereals, but I haven't identified good rules yet).
AV can't be more than S+6. AV can't be less than S+3.
No player can have more than 22 when summing all 4 of their stats, including big guys, or players with bloodlust or no hands.
Big guys don't affect MA restrictions.
Teams can have up to MA 6.
MA cannot be higher than Agi +5.
Stunties without G access can be up to MA 8.
Teams without any STR 4+ can have up to MA 7 and up to 4 players with MA 8.
Teams whose linemen are agi 4 whose MA 8 players are STR 2 can have an additional 2 MA 8 players.
Teams whose linemen are agi 3 whose MA 8 players are STR 2 can either increase those players up to MA 9 or take up to 4 other players with MA 8.
Teams with 6 STR 4 can have up to 2 ma 7 players.
Teams with 2 Str 5 positionals or 4 Str 4 positionals can have 4 players with MA 7.
Teams with 2 STR 4 players and no str 5 can have 2 MA 7 and 2 MA 8 players.
Str 4+ players may not start with Block or Wrestle or Dodge.
Players with Str 4 or less may not start with Mighty Blow
Teams may not start with more than 4 players with Block or Wrestle.
Teams with +Agi may not start with more than 2 players with Block or Wrestle.
Teams with 2 or more Str 5+ players, may not start with more than 2 players with Block or Wrestle.
Teams with more than 2 Str 4 players and any players with MA 7 may not start with more than 2 players with Block or Wrestle.
Teams with any Str 4 players and any players with MA 8 may not start with more than 2 players with Block or Wrestle.
If the team has no +agi, and has either no +STR, 1 STR 4 or STR 5 player, or 2 STR 4 players, and the team has no dodge, then the 0-16 player can start with Block or Wrestle in addition to their 4 positionals who may start with Block or Wrestle. If the 0-16 players get Block this way, all positionals get +10k cost.
If no players with agi 3+ have MA 7+ or av 8+, 2 extra players who do not have Dodge may start with Block or Wrestle.
For every 2 players whose max speed is reduced by 1, 1 extra player can start with Block or Wrestle.
No more than 2 players with Str 3+ and Agi 4 can start with Dodge.
The following skills have limited amounts per team to start:
Catch (max 4)
Pass (max 2)
Any of the above skills, can be taken beyond the max; however, they no longer give skill access, and they become a standard skill for costing (cost increases by 10k if not chosen as the first skill).
Sure Hands (max 2)
The above skill can be taken beyond the max; however, they become a skill that costs 20k when taken initially (and still increase by 10k if not chosen as the first skill).
Fan Favourite (max 1)
Guard (the combined strength of all players (including big guys) with guard can't be more than 4)
The above 2 skills are hard limits, and may not be taken more than described.
Played cannot start with more than 3 non negative skills. For each player who is slower than the maximum allowed by the team, one player may start with one extra skill beyond 3.
A player may give up a skill access to start with an extra skill.
A player may start with an extra skill for an extra 10k on top of the normal price of the skill.
The following skills cost 20k: Dodge, Block, Mighty Blow, Guard, Leader, Claw (only if player also has S access or starts with Mighty Blow), Tentacles (only if the player is S5+), Sure Feet (only if the player has Ball & Chain), Grab (only if the player has Ball & Chain)
The following skills cost 10k and do not increase in cost if they are not the first skill chosen:
Catch, Thick Skull, Pass, Dump Off, Horns, Foul Appearance
Diving Catch, Jump Up, Leap, Sneaky Git, Sprint, Multiple Block, Strong Arm (unless the player has P access), Nerves of Steel, Fend, Pass Block, Shadowing, Very Long Legs
Note: Players with Pass may not start with Bombardier.
Players with Str 6+ and AV 10 (unless they have Ball & Chain) can get Thick Skull or Strong Arm (or Throw-teammate if they are a Big Guy) for free, or taking Stand Firm costs 10k less than normal.
0-16 players with both leap and very long legs and agi 3 or less get very long legs for free.
Positional players with both leap and very long legs and agi 4 or more and str 2 or less get very long legs for free.
Any skill (not including extraordinary skills) beyond the first costs an extra 10k (except those specified above). If a player has Str 2 (or lower) and Stunty and Dodge, other skills are purchased ignoring that Dodge exists (meaning that the next skill does not cost the extra 10k, but the third skill would).
Stunty refunds 10k if you have Ball & Chain.
Stunty is free for all other players.
Stunty may not be taken if the player is Agi 4. (need exceptions to this)
Titchy costs 20k if the you have Stunty.
Right Stuff is free if the player is MA 5 or less and AV 6 or less.
Right Stuff is 20k if the player is MA 7 or more.
Swoop is 40k if the player is MA 5 or less.
Swoop is 50k if the player is MA 6 or more.
Hypnotic Gaze costs 30k for Agi 4, 20k for Agi 3, and 10k for any lower Agi.
Ball and Chain players must take No Hands as well.
Ball and Chain costs 10k for MA3 players; Ball and Chain is free for MA2 or less players. Ball and Chain costs an additional 20k for each MA above 3 (30k for MA4 players, 50k for MA5 players, etc)
Bombardier costs 50k if the player has Stunty and is Agi 3. Bombardier costs 10k less for each Agi less the player has. Bombardier costs 10k more if the player doesn't have Stunty, and 10k more if: the player has Agi 4 or Accurate.
Players with Bombardier may not start with Pass.
Chainsaw costs 100k for Str 1, 80k for Str 2, 60k for Str 3, 40k for Str 4, 20k for Str 5+.
Decay (on players with MA 5 or less) and Always Hungry and Animosity (with agi 3+) and Loner refund 10k.
Decay with MA 6 or more and Animosity with Agi 2 or less is free.
No Hands refunds 20k.
For Bonehead, Take Root, Really Stupid, Wild Animal, and Secret Weapon, a player gets the cost discount of being a big guy even if they are a normal positional, as long as they meet all of the requirements for making a big guy except they don't need to be loners.
Bonehead and Take Root (with MA 4+) refund 40k for a big guy, 20k for any other player.
Really Stupid and Wild Animal and Take Root (with MA 3 or less) refund 50k for a big guy, and 30k for any other player.
Secret Weapon refunds 60k for a big guy and 40k for any other player.
Any player with Bonehead, Take Root, Really Stupid, Wild Animal, or Bloodlust, must pay 10k more for Pro.
Bloodlust refunds 30k.
Stakes is free if the player has Stab and has purchased a skill access (the skill access must not come free with any skill or stat increase.)
All other skills cost 10k.
A player with Take Root and Stand Firm gets an additional 10k refund.
For each player who starts with Stab, the fastest player on the team has their maximum speed reduced by 1.
Stunties: Stunty players lose G access and gain A access.
Agile: Players with +Agi cannot have S access unless they have bloodlust.
Big guys: Anyone (including Big Guys) with Str 5+ loses G access and cannot purchase G access (maybe need exceptions?).
Big guys: any player with Str 5+ (including Big Guys) who gets A access for free must pay 10k, and purchasing A access costs these players an extra 10k (20k total).
Blockers: If a player has +Str, they get S access for free.
Blitzers: Players with Block, who are faster than the 0-16 player or fastest on the team, and who do not have +AGI, get S access for free. A player can still get the S access for free if they replace Block with at least 30k worth of other skills (not including extraordinary skills), and meet the other requirements.
Skilled: If a player has +agi, they get A access for free.
Skilled: Players with Agi 3, AV 7 (or less) and MA 7 (or more) and only have access to G, get A access for free.
Skilled: Players with MA 7 and Frenzy and no S access get A access for free.
Mutants: Teams who give up their highest speed players, can have up to that many players with M access on doubles (so 2 MA 7 players and 2 MA 8 players would be 6 MA increases, so up to 6 positionsls can have M access on doubles). If at least 4 players gain this skill access, any big guys the team has also get M access on doubles.
Mutants: 0-16 players who have the only A access on the team, when everyone else on the team has animosity, can get M access for free, but re-rolls cost 70k. If chosen, big guys also get M access for free.
Mutants: 0-16 players who have access to at least 2 skills on normals, can give up one skill access. In return, every player on the team gets M access for free.
Dying: 0-16 players with Decay may take an extra skill access for free. If chosen, big guys also get M on doubles for free.
Runners: Players with Sure Hands and S access may drop S access and take P access.
Players with the following skills get the appropriate skill access for free:
Catchers (Agility): Catch
Blockers (Strength): Thick Skull
Throwers (Passing): Pass
Runners (Passing): Dump Off
Mutants (Mutations): Horns (only if more than 4 players start with it); if the player also has S access, the M access can be replaced with A access for free
If not given by a skill or stat increase, skill access costs 10k.
+STR costs 40k (30k if the player has Bloodlust or Ball and Chain) plus an additional 10k to go from Strength 3 to Strength 4 (total 50k, or 40k with Bloodlust or Ball and Chain)
+Agi costs 30k (20k if the player has both Chainsaw and Secret Weapon; or Bloodlust; or No Hands)
+MA costs 10k except:
Going from MA 6 to 7 costs an extra 10k (total 20k) unless the player is a positional and has agi 4 (and the linemen on the team are also agi 4) in which case it still only costs 10k; or if the player has no hands it still only costs 10k
STR 4 players pay an additional 10k for +MA (30k to go from 6 to 7 and 20k to go from 7 to 8).
+AV costs 10k, except Str 3 players with MA 6+ cost 20k, and Str 4 players with MA 5+ going to AV10 cost 20k.
-STR refunds 30k
-Agi refunds 10k (except if the player has ball and chain, in which case -Agi gives no refund)
-MA refunds 10k, except 0-16 players going from MA 6 to 5 gain no refund except if the player has thick skull and doesn't take S access then they still get the 10k refund
Going from MA 3 to 2 refunds an additional 10k (20 total)
-AV refunds 10k, except:
Reducing AV to S+3 from S+4 always refunds 10k less (usually this means it gives no refund).
If less than 4 players on the team have AV 8 (or more) in which case going from AV 8 to 7 refunds 20k, except if the combined strength of all players who have dodge is more than 8, in which case, the players with dodge only refunds 10k
If any player on the team has MA8+, +Str on any non-big guy positional costs 10k extra.
If any non-big guy player on the team has Str4+, +MA on any non-big guy positional costs 10k extra.
If all your players (except big guys) have agi 4, 50k re-rolls.
If none of your players have +S (except 1 big guy) or +A, 50k re-rolls.
If less than 3 players do not have leap: 50k re-rolls
If more than 6 players have regen: 70k re-rolls.
If more than 4 players start with frenzy: 70k re-rolls
If more than 4 players start with animosity: 70k re-rolls
If more than 4 players start with AV9 (or more) and Agi2 (or more) and more than 4 players start with AV7 (or less): 70k re-rolls
If more than 2 players on the team have G access, and no players on the team have S3: 50k re-rolls.
Everyone else: 60k re-rolls
A team that qualifies for both 50k and 70k re-rolls will have 60k re-rolls.
A team with 60k re-rolls may increase their cost to 70k and in return their linemen gain P access (and a single big guy also gains P access) on normals.
A team with 60k re-rolls may increase their cost to 70k and give up to 4 positionals (and a single big guy) M access on normals for free.
Why do some stunty teams lose loner on their big guys? They aren't actually big guys, they're standard positionals who happen to follow all the other rules as big guys.
Vampires get 60k re-rolls (which has been discussed a lot elsewhere, and I think is justified)
Chaos and Nurgle as a team are incredibly expensive (compared to their win rates), but that's due to skill access not officially costing anything, which is bad design for a ruleset such as this. Too much skill access means if they pay for that skill access, they are terrible at low tv, and if they don't pay for that skill access, they dominate at high tv. If you wanted to avoid that high price in this ruleset, then you could use a modified version of the teams: The linemen don't need S access. Chaos: Re-design the Beastmen: 6338 Horns GM 70k (same cost as current Beastmen). Once this change is made, then the team price overall becomes +20. Nurgle: Re-design Pestigors: 6338 Horns Regeneration GM 90k (same cost as current Pestigors). Once this change is made, then team price is overall +40.
Dwarves as a team are incredibly expensive (compared to their overall win rate, although its not too far off for low tv), but that's because the linemen get too many skills too cheaply. In a ruleset such as this, that begs the question why does no one else chooses so many skills? If you wanted to avoid that high price in this ruleset, then you could use a modified version of the teams: Re-design: Linedwarves become 4329 Block Thick Skull GS 80k (same cost as current dwarf blockers), and add a new 0-2 Dwarf Blocker 3329 Block Tackle Thick Skull GS 80k. Once this change is made, then the team price overall becomes -20.
Chaos Pact are also overpriced (compared to their overall win rate). The linemen again have too much access (again, like chaos and nurgle, this ends up too cheap at high tv for no cost), and all of the renegades get hit with other changes that make them more expensive, due to the crazy combination of different abilities on one team. Note that two of the 'big guys' are actually positionals who just happen to follow all of the big guy rules. If you wanted to avoid that high price in this ruleset, then you could use a modified version of the teams: I would re-design the linemen and remove S and P access. Note that you COULD give the linemen P access in return for the 70k re-rolls, but I'd rather reduce the price on the 4 renegades in return for the 70k re-rolls. So the linemen end up 6338 GM 70k (+10), and the team as a whole ends up at -20.
Existing teams (total price change with all positionals and 14 players and 4 re-rolls):
Linemen 6338 G 60k (0)
Blitzer 7338 Block GS 100k (0)
Thrower 6338 Sure Hands, Pass GP 80k (0)
Catcher 8237 Dodge, Catch GA 80k (+10)
Ogre 5529 Loner Bonehead Mighty Blow Thick Skull Throw Teammate S 120k (-30)
Pro Elf (+40)
Linemen 6347 GA 70k (0)
Blitzer 7348 Block, Side Step GA 140k (+20)
Thrower 6347 Pass GAP 80k (0)
Catcher 8347 Catch, Nerves of Steel GA 110k (0)
Wood Elf (+140)
Linemen 7347 GA 90k (+10)
Wardancer 8347 Block Dodge Leap GA 160k (+30)
Thrower 7347 Pass GAP 90k (-10)
Catcher 8247 Dodge Sprint Catch GA 110k (+10)
Treeman 26110 Loner Take Root Mighty Blow Stand Firm Strong Arm Thick Skull Throw Teammate Tim-mber S 140k (+10) - this seems crazy expensive. Not sure what to do here
High Elf (+100)
Linemen 6348 GA 90k (+10)
Blitzer 7348 Block GA 120k (+10)
Thrower 6348 Safe Throw Pass GAP 110k (+10)
Catcher 8347 Catch 110k (+10)
Dark Elf (+80)
Linemen 6348 GA 90k (+10)
0-2 Blitzer 7348 Block GA 120k (+10)
Runner 7347 Dump Off GAP 100k (+10)
Assassin 6347 Stab Shadowing 100k (0)
Witch Elf 7347 Dodge Jump Up Frenzy 140k (+20)
Thrall 6337 G 50k (0)
Vampire 6448 Hypnotic Gaze Blood Lust Regeneration GAS 130k (+10)
60k Re-rolls (-10)
Goblins 6237 Dodge Stunty Right Stuff A 50k (0)
Doom Diver 6237 Right Stuff Stunty Swoop A 70k (0)
'Ooligan 6237 Dodge Disturbing Presence Fan Favourite Right Stuff Stunty A 70k (-10)
Fanatic 3737 Ball & Chain No Hands Secret Weapon Stunty S 80k (0)
Pogoer 7237 Dodge Stunty Very Long Legs Leap A 80k (0)
Looney 6237 Chainsaw Secret Weapon Stunty A 50k (0)
Bombardier 6237 Bombardier Dodge Secret Weapon Stunty A 50k (0)
0-3 Troll 4519 Loner Really Stupid Mighty Blow Regeneration Throw Teammate S 100k (-20)
Halflings 5236 Dodge Stunty Right Stuff A 30k (-10)
Halfling Hopeful 5236 Catch Dodge Stunty Right Stuff Sprint A 40k (-20)
Halfling Hefty 5237 Dodge Fend Stunty AP 50k (-10)
0-3 Treeman 26110 Take Root Mighty Blow Stand Firm Strong Arm Thick Skull Throw Teammate Tim-mber S 150k (+20) - this seems crazy expensive. Not sure what to do here
Daemons of Khorne (0 and the Herald and the Bloodthirster give up M access for no benefit)
Pit Fighter 6338 Frenzy GP 80k (+10)
Bloodletter Daemon 6337 Horns Juggernaut Regeneration GAS 90k (0)
Khorne Herald 6338 Frenzy Horns Juggernaut GS 100k (0)
Bloodthirster 6519 Loner Frenzy Wild Animal Claw Horns Juggernaut Regeneration S 160k (-30)
60k Re-rolls (-10)
Bonobos 6337 Extra Arms G 60k (0)
Orangutangs 5338 Extra Arms Strong Arm GP 80k (0)
Chimpanzees 7337 Extra Arms Wrestle GA 90k (0)
Gorillas 5428 Extra Arms Grab AS 110k (0)
Silverback 5519 Loner Wild Animal Extra Arms Grab Mighty Blow S 130k (-20)
Team (total price change assuming 14 total players including all positionals and 4 re-rolls)
Ogre (ignore spike 8 update; +20, but recall that includes getting 8 ogres now; -200 with only 6 ogres)
Halfling (+20, but they get 3 trees, so probably fine; -100 with only 2 trees)
Goblin (0, but they get 3 trolls; -50 with only 2 trolls)
Ogre (-30 - using spike 8, only 5 ogres and 1 runt punter, assuming they can afford lots of gnoblars)
Underworld (+30, but they get 2 trolls now; -20 with only 1 troll)
Daemons of Khorne (0)
Orc (only 1 goblin assumed, +20)
Chaos Dwarves (+30)
AVERAGE (+40; 14 above, 12 below)
Pro Elf (+40)
Orc (+60 - no goblins, 1 thrower)
Chaos Dwarf (+60 - no minotaur)
Nurgle (+80 - See notes in unexplained)
Amazon (+100 - no throwers or catchers)
High Elf (+100)
Chaos Renegades (+100 - This is bad. See notes in unexplained)
Chaos (+100 - See notes in unexplained)
Dwarf (+120 - See notes in unexplained)
Dark Elf (+80 - but note they only get 2 blitzers now; +140 with 4 blitzers)
Wood Elf (+140)
Predicted tiers of core teams over perpetual play, or long term leagues that allow going to 2000 tv (using base rules, not this ruleset) based on team pricing, assuming equal coach skill
Dark Elf, Wood Elf
Nurgle, Lizardmen, Skaven, High Elf, Amazon, Chaos, Dwarf
Orc, Chaos Dwarf, Pro Elf, Necromantic, Undead, Slann, Chaos Renegades
Vampire, Human, Brettonian, Norse, Daemons of Khorne
Khemri, Underworld, Simyin
Tier 3: Goblin, spike 8 Ogre
Tier 4: Halfling
Tier 6: pre spike 8 Ogre
WORK IN PROGRESS - note that the secret league rosters are primarily here to find flaws in the base rules presented by the core team. For instance, Sisters of Sigmar is certainly not as underpriced as the rules show. However, this is a combination of the rules not being tweaked enough AND that if Sisters of Sigmar were created again, knowing these rules exist, they would simply look a lot differently. This makes it difficult to identify when the rule needs to be tweaked, or if a team is just 'poor' design, in terms of creating players that would allow for more abusive players (similar to dwarf blockers), so shouldn't be used in a ruleset such as this which is designed to allow people to create rosters.
Daemons of Khorne (-70 - note if we kept the disallowed parts of the actual roster, this would be -50 as the Bloodthirster would be 150k)
0-16 Khorne Cultists 6338 GM 70k (+10)
0-6 Bloodletters 6438 Frenzy Regenerate Claw Bloodlust No Hands GS 100k (-10)
0-1 Bloodthirster 4*71*10* Loner Wild Animal No Hands Bloodlust Regenerate Thick Skull Claw Mighty Blow Frenzy S 130k (-80)
70k Re-roll counter (0)
Daemons of Slaanesh (+20 - note if we kept the disallowed parts of the actual roster, this would be +120, as the keeper would be 200k, and re-rolls would be 70k due to the extra daemonettes)
0-16 Cultists 6338 GM 70k (+10)
0-4* Daemonettes 7347 Regeneration Hypnotic Gaze Claw GA 140k (+10)
0-1 Keeper of Secrets 6*53*8 Loner Wild Animal Regeneration Extra Arms Claw Very Long Legs S 140k (-70)
60k* Re-rolls (-10)
Daemons of Tzeentch (+200 - note if we kept the disallowed parts of the actual roster, this would be +240, as the Lord of Change would be 200k)
0-16 Blue Horror 6237 Stunty Right Stuff Dodge Big Hand AM 70k (+20 - need a rule here. clearly blue horrors are NOT that good, so need some kind of discount)
0-4 Pink Horrors 6438 Extra Arms Throw Teammate Regeneration GSM 150k (+20)
0-2 Flamers 7348 No Hands Secret Weapon Bombardier Regeneration A 100k (+20)
0-1 Lord of Change 6*538* Loner Wild Animal Regeneration Mighty Blow Leap Very Long Legs Foul Appearance SM 160k (-50) 200,000
60k Re-rolls (-10)
Avelorn (+120 - note if we kept the disallowed parts of the actual roster, this would still be +140, as the Handmaidens would be 150k, and there would be 4 of the cheaper sisters)
0-16 Linemen 6348 GA 90k (+10)
0-2* Sister 7347 Pass Catch GAP 110k (0)
0-2 Sister 7347 Pass Catch GAP 120k (+10)
0-2 Handmaiden 7*348 Block Stand Firm GA 140k (+10)
Black Ark Corsairs (+200)
0-16 Black Ark Corsairs 7347 GA 100k (+20)
0-2 Doomreavers 7347 Pass GAP 100k (+10)
0-2 Dreadblades 7347 Juggernaut Nerves of Steel GA 110k (+10)
0-4 Kraken Helms 6348 Disturbing Presence Foul Appearance Tentacles GA 130k (+20)
50k* Re-rolls (-10)
0-16 Sisters of the Thorn 6347 Regeneration GA 80k (-10)
0-4 Naiads 7347 Regeneration Sidestep GA 110k (-10)
0-1 Great Sylph 6528 Loner Wild Animal Regeneration Mighty Blow Side Step Disturbing Presence S 140k (-30)
Border Princes (-10, and they gave up S access on linemen and runners for no benefit in return)
0-16 Linemen 6337 Thick Skull G 60k (0) (note that these guys seem to have given up S access for no benefit)
0-2 Runner 7337 Sure Hands Thick Skull GA 90k (+10) (note that these guys seem to have given up S access for no benefit)
0-2 Rogue 7337 Stab Shadowing Dodge GA 120k (+20)
0-4 Brawler 7338 Wrestle GS 100k (0)
0-1 Ogre 5529 Loner Bonehead Mighty Blow Thick Skull Throw Teammate S 120k (-30)
50k* Re-rolls (-10)
Four Nations (+180 but Linemen give up P for no benefit, Full back gives up A for no benefit, Forwards give up P for no benefit, Wings give up P for no benefit)
0-16 Linemen 6338 Dump Off Nerves of Steel G 80k (+10)
0-1 Full Back 6338 Dump Off Nerves of Steel Catch Kick-Off Return GP 100k (+10)
0-2 Half Backs 6338 Dump Off Nerves of Steel Kick Hail Mary Pass GP 110k (+20)
0-4 Forwards 6338 Dump Off Nerves of Steel Diving Tackle Fend GS 100k (+10)
0-2 Wings 7338 Dump Off Nerves of Steel Catch GA 110k (+20)
Sisters of Sigmar (+140, but note they only get 3 sister superiors now - note if we kept the disallowed parts of the team, this would be +180, as there would be 4 sister superiors)
0-16 Sisters 5339 G 70k (+10)
0-2 Purifiers 6338 Stab Stakes GA 80k (0)
0-2 Augurs 7337 Sure Hands Pro Nerves of Steel GA 110k (+10)
0-3* Sister Superior 5339 Block Stand Firm GS 110k (+20)
0-1 Matriarch 5429 Dauntless Mighty Blow GS 140k (+10)
Zandri (-100 - note if we kept the disallowed parts of the actual roster, this would be -80, as the tomb guardan ancients would be 160k)
0-16 Skeleton Slaves 5327 Regeneration Thick Skull Jump Up G 50k (-10)
0-2 Slave Throw-Ras 6327 Regeneration Sure Hands Pass Jump Up GP 80k (-10)
0-2 Catch-Ras 7237 Regeneration Dodge Catch Nerves of Steel GA 100k (0)
0-2 Skeleton Pirates 5327 Regeneration Thick Skull Stab Jump Up G 70k (-20)
0-2 Tomb Guardian Ancients 3519 Regeneration Mighty Blow Jump Up S* 150k (+10)
Clan Eshin (-20, but note they only get 2 gutter runners now - note if we kept the disallowed parts of the actual roster, this would be +60, as there would be 4 gutter runners instead of 2 gutter runners and 2+ night runners (there could be more than night runners, but since the night runner price doesn't change, only the ones that replace the 2 gutter runners change the overall team price))
0-16 Clan Rat 7337 G (M on doubles) 60k (0)
0-4* Night Runners 8237 Dodge GA (M on doubles) 70k (0)
0-2* Gutter Runners 9247 Dodge GA (M on doubles) 110k (+20)
0-2 Assassins 8347 Shadowing Stab GA (M on doubles) 110k (-10) SPM
Clan Mors (-20)
0-16 Clan Rat 7337 G (M on doubles) 60k (0)
0-4 Storm Vermin 7338 Block GS (M on doubles) 100k (0)
0-2 Red Guard 7339 Block Pro GS (M on doubles) 130k (+10)
50k* Re-rolls (-10)
0-16 Skink 8237 Stunty Dodge A 70k (0)
0-2 Chameleon Skink 7237 Stunty Dodge Shadowing Pass Block A 80k (0)
0-2 Red Crested Skink 8237 Stunty Dodge Dauntless GA 100k (+10)
0-4 Kroxigor 6519 Bone Head Thick Skull Mighty Blow Prehensile Tail S 150k (0)
60k* Re-rolls (+10)