Mates
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
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 Posted:
Feb 17, 2008 - 11:22 |
 
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| CaienCamelle wrote: | | Another point: Those magic healing potions which everyone else got really grated on my mind. They sent a signal that people who had been around a while were a lot more valuable than new players. |
I don't think that it shows that coaches who have been here longer are more valuable, even coaches with one game played got them. It was about that milion games mark, that we managed to play this many Blood bowl matches. You didn't have to have 500 games played, you just needed one of that milion  |
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Life sucks and then you die. |
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CaienCamelle
Joined: Jan 13, 2008
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| Posted:
Feb 17, 2008 - 11:27 |
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| Mates wrote: | | I don't think that it shows that coaches who have been here longer are more valuable, even coaches with one game played got them. It was about that milion games mark, that we managed to play this many Blood bowl matches. You didn't have to have 500 games played, you just needed one of that milion |
I'm just telling you how it came across to me at the time.
A few weeks later, and understanding how far away I am from having any players I'd use it on, I'm not bothered. |
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Mates
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
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Feb 17, 2008 - 11:28 |
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| CaienCamelle wrote: |
I'm just telling you how it came across to me at the time.
A few weeks later, and understanding how far away I am from having any players I'd use it on, I'm not bothered. |
Ok, I appologize, I didn't mean it wrong |
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Life sucks and then you die. |
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mymLaban
Joined: Apr 20, 2004
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Feb 17, 2008 - 11:32 |
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I dont agree with people here being unpleasent and rude not in general atleast ofcourse some people aint all ways that nice, but still there is alot of nice people around. When i joined quite some time ago i havent played tabletop in years, and i was having a very hard time with this. I must have lost more then 1000 matches our of maybe 1250 or so when i started. I just put my energi into making cool teams instead of winning so much. Even now with allmost 5000 matches played i still have a lousy win ratio cause of my bad start i hardly made it over 50% wins  i dont loss much as it is now though but that besides the point. I f your new here just take some time to make a few friends to talk to, and get help from.
Allso when i joined i found the danish channel on IRC im sure most countries have one of those that might be a good place to find the first friend around here. Ohh and dont give up just because you lose alot of matches, keep on going  |
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shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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Feb 17, 2008 - 11:56 |
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i'm curious...
why are we even concerned at all about what those elitist jerkwads at TBB think of fumbbl?
--j |
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| origami wrote: | | There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet. |
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Optihut
Joined: Dec 16, 2004
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Feb 17, 2008 - 12:17 |
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| ChrisB wrote: | | d) Poor posting etiquette is rife in the forums, unfriendly posts are common, but it is an open forum rather than heavily policed. I know I'd rather see it open. The posters of "pie" should know better though. |
I disagree with this point. While fumbbl isn't the absolutely spectacular #1 internet community, it still ranks #2 from the odd 10 places where I used to post. Overall people around here are very friendly for internet standards.
I think that there is a loud minority that skew the perception of the community as a whole, though. |
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Pirog
Joined: Jul 13, 2006
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Feb 17, 2008 - 12:20 |
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| Quote: | | Since then, I've noticed more and more of a 'mock-the-newbie' attitude, where an innocent question or action by a new player is a prompt for everyone to laugh at them. This happens on these forums and in IRC. |
This will always be a dilemma on the internet and I don't see it ever changing. To give a true but perhaps politically incorrect explanation it is because virtually all internet games are dominated by an elite "class" of people that have been geeks all their lives. It's only natural that these people who enjoys combing the rules and calculating every move to get that extra edge against their opponents are at the top. It's also natural that these people has been bullied by other people during much of their life. Which makes it natural that they now, when they are at the top for once, take every chance they got to bully others.
I got a big mouth and can be rude myself in many ways, but this jumping on people who haven't understood the rules or been around long enough to know the unwritten customs of how to use the site is something that I view as very unfortunate. I think that a lot of people quits Fumbbl because of this attitude.
But it's the same in all internet games. The big guilds in World of Warcraft is also dominated by elitist jerks to name an example. |
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shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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Feb 17, 2008 - 12:21 |
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let's play "retort the idiocy" shall we?
| CaienCamelle wrote: | | Since then, I've noticed more and more of a 'mock-the-newbie' attitude, where an innocent question or action by a new player is a prompt for everyone to laugh at them. This happens on these forums and in IRC. |
well when you've been around this site for going on 5 years, and you've seen every single incarnation of a stupid question like "i rolled a normal skill on a lineman!!! what do i take?!?!" it starts to grate on your nerves....
also, half the questions that raise this "mock-the-newbie" attitude that you so fondly speak of, are idiotbox questions that can be answered with a quick scan of the site, or the rulebook...you know...the rulebook?...that thing you're supposed to own to be able to play here?
to put it simply...we're not playing "mock-the-newbie"...we're playing "mock-the-lethargic-simpleton-who-refuses-to-look-for-himself-and-expects-the-community-to-answer-every-single-idiot-question-they-pose"....
huge difference...
| CaienCamelle wrote: | | However, the whole internet does not have a 'let's laugh when the newbie does something silly' attitude. FUMMBL does. |
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHA
tell you what...
how bout you go over to 4chan, the wow forums, EQ, or for that matter, any gaming based forum with that attitude...i guarantee you'll last about 5 minutes before you get eaten alive.....
in the grand scheme of things, we are *very* nice to people on here...compared to the majority of the internet, we're freaking mother theresa...
people on this site *ARE* welcoming....this is one of the best communities on the internet...the catch is, the regulars have no tolerance for morons...if you come to this site, come with some intelligence, common sense, and a sense of humor, and you'll do just fine...if you lack any of the three(yeah, yeah, i can already see the sarcastic irony comments here...contrary to popular belief, i *do* posess all three...i just choose when to actually apply them...smartasses ), you'll be thrown to the lions...
--j |
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| origami wrote: | | There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Feb 17, 2008 - 12:23 |
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| CaienCamelle wrote: | | koadah wrote: |
Fumbbl is no worse that many other forum I've been on. Yes we should be nice to noobs. But if someone says something really silly they're going to be toast |
It's a shame you said that, because on the whole you're very noob-welcoming - the 145 Club is a very good idea.
However, the whole internet does not have a 'let's laugh when the newbie does something silly' attitude. FUMMBL does.
In the other online communities I'm involved with, established users take care of new users, and if they do something really, really stupid (the equivalent of complaining about the RNG ) they put the newbie straight in a factual and mature manner. |
I can't deny being a bit grumpy at times
Sure some people ARE too quick to jump on noobs.
Check the 'I keep losing please tell me why' threads. They are usually full of good advice. People writing the same advice over and over again helping new coaches out. Even though this stuff is all fully documented in help. (Thouhg maybe not so obvious to find)
How people are treated will often depend on the tone of their post.
i.e. 'I'm only losing because on the RNG' sounds just a little arrogant. The post WILL get a few pleasantly worded 'There are a lot of good coaches on Fumbbl...' responses. But you just know that someone will say 'No mate, it because you stink'.
Fouling/Stalling/crowd pushing/Cherrypicking. [R] is [R]. It is supposed to be competitive. That is going to mean anything within the rules.
If these problems are really so bad why hasn't everyone defected to [U]?
The constant moaning about people who play to win is part of the reason for [R] grumpiness.
Seeing as the few who do play in [U] seem to play tough anyway maybe we need a new [Fun] division. |
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[SL] + Official Stunty teams. Progression KO. Old & new teams welcome. 29th May! |
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Pirog
Joined: Jul 13, 2006
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Feb 17, 2008 - 12:23 |
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Thanks for illustrating my point, Shadow. That was extremly fast work. |
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CaienCamelle
Joined: Jan 13, 2008
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Feb 17, 2008 - 12:33 |
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| shadow46x2 wrote: |
how bout you go over to 4chan, the wow forums, EQ, or for that matter, any gaming based forum with that attitude...i guarantee you'll last about 5 minutes before you get eaten alive..... |
That's odd, because the other gaming forum I'm a member of doesn't behave that way.
In any case I don't see why people being dicks somewhere else is any reason for people to be dicks here. |
Last edited by CaienCamelle on %b %17, %2008 - %12:%Feb; edited 1 time in total |
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Pirog
Joined: Jul 13, 2006
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Feb 17, 2008 - 12:34 |
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| Quote: | Sure some people ARE too quick to jump on noobs.
Check the 'I keep losing please tell me why' threads. They are usually full of good advice. People writing the same advice over and over again helping new coaches out. Even though this stuff is all fully documented in help. (Thouhg maybe not so obvious to find) |
Yeah, that's the thing. Almost no people actually read etiquette rules, or use the search function in forums, or learn everything in extensive rule books before they start playing games.
Just like people at the hospital I used to work at didn't read signs properly. If I would throw a fit like Shadow every time someone asked the direction that I think they should have been able to learn by spending 10 or so seconds reading the map on the wall I would have been fired and rightly so.
I have never understood this frustration over new people asking questions that have been asked before. Especially since the same people who get irritated over it tend to spend most of their time writing completely pointless posts to their friends. I can certainly respect that people don't feel like taking the time to help newcomers with their problems, but to take the same amount of time just to instruct them how stupid they are for asking is just being a bully.
Take Shadow for an example. Everyone that has been here for a while has seen him post pretty much as many arrogant flame responses to newcomers as there are newcomer questions. Yet he seems to legitimise repeating his own posts that tires out the rest of us, while not legitimising the newcomers questions that has also been heard before. That's just pure elitism. |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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This is a little sad and depressing to see.
Yes we do get a lot of 'RL Hero's': Those that come along having beaten a few largely dissinterested mates, usually without knowing or using a couple of key rules and most of the key tactics, and then are upset that they dont rule here instantly. Sometimes they can be reasoned with and in time will find their way, often they leave. I dont miss them. Having tried to help quite a few of these it is a frustrating and tricky thing to do, and the genewral community doesnt seem to see value in it.
But also there are many here that can be very offputting to new players. I have no issue if you want to destroy a noobs team and run up a huge score, but at least point out HOW and WHY that was easy for you to do, let them learn. Also it would be nice if the heavy foulers, elfballers, pickers, draw stallers etc pointed out that not everyone plays the game their way on fumbbl. But it seems the very personality traits that encourage such 'game only to win' mentalitys do often see no benefit to that either.
Every month or so i try and adopt a noob. talking to them at length a couple of times and maybe spectating a match with them, or that they play. Several of these have stayed and grown and become good fumbblers. I would urge any veteran coach (100 games or more) to be trying to do the same. And to do so fairly, offering them advice not just to recreate 'your niche gaming choices' but introducing them to the whiole variety of fumbbl play.
Every community does need new blood. While i do think fumbbl is better at welcoming new players than some gaming sites ive been to. The experience could easily be better, and we should all feel some responsibility towards that. |
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Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intelligor illis -Ovid
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone |
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shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 17, 2008 - 12:39 |
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man pirog...
how's the view up there on your horse?
| Pirog's High Horse wrote: | | Take Shadow for an example. Everyone that has been here for a while has seen him post pretty much as many arrogant flame responses to newcomers as there are newcomer questions. Yet he seems to legitimise repeating his own posts that tires out the rest of us, while not legitimising the newcomers questions that has also been heard before. That's just pure elitism. |
no, i tend to surround myself around people who can think for themselves, and actually use their brain....kinda explains why i don't socialize with you, doesn't it?
when it comes down to it, i am a very helpful person, but only towards people who show the motivation to help themselves...if you're out in the open looking for everyone to help you, and you aren't taking the steps to find the information, other than begging, then you're of no use.....
--j |
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| origami wrote: | | There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet. |
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Pirog
Joined: Jul 13, 2006
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| Posted:
Feb 17, 2008 - 13:00 |
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| Quote: | | when it comes down to it, i am a very helpful person, but only towards people who show the motivation to help themselves...if you're out in the open looking for everyone to help you, and you aren't taking the steps to find the information, other than begging, then you're of no use..... |
If you object to being an elitist that is not a very intelligent way of defending yourself. Do you often find yourself attacking people that you feel have no use in real life as well?
Nobody can demand of you to be helpful to newcomers, but why not just shut the hell up and ignore them instead of constantly being rude about it? Do you think your derogatory posts to them brings the community more than their questions does? It only makes you look like the kind of person that can only feel big by belittling others. |
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