Kinks
Joined: Feb 28, 2007
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 Posted:
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:47 |
 
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I play to win, but I play to win 5-0, not 1-0 or2-1.
If I feel I am more skillful than my opponent there is no need for me to stall in order to prevent them from having an opportunity to get an equaliser, I instead see me scoring as an opportunity for me to score further TD's and prove that the first one wasn't just luck.
Ranked play is competitive, but I'd rather see who is the better player, not the best "tosser" (good at winning the coin toss). If everyone played to stall it would make for a very dull game were which ever team got the luckiest start would win nearly every time. |
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Better lucky than good |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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Apr 18, 2008 - 12:53 |
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| Topper wrote: | | Never opt to kick - whether you´re the basher or not. |
You sound stuck in conservatism there.  Try it for a few games. I assure you that there are many circumstances in which it is a good decision. Getting the first hit in (ie, choosing to receive) is an important advantage, yes, and one which some teams (eg, Norse) can never afford to turn down - but it's not the only factor in play. |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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Apr 18, 2008 - 12:58 |
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| Kinks wrote: | | If I feel I am more skillful than my opponent there is no need for me to stall in order to prevent them from having an opportunity to get an equaliser, I instead see me scoring as an opportunity for me to score further TD's and prove that the first one wasn't just luck. |
I agree: if I'm confident that my opponent is completely hopeless then I'll happily score and score again without stalling. However, I don't think it would be very helpful if I was to reply to a request for advice by saying: 'Assuming you're a much better coach than your opponent, here's what you should do ...' |
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Colin
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 18, 2008 - 12:58 |
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There are times High Elves (and other Elves) can or need to stall - as mentioned, taking more time up with your own offence makes life harder for the bashers (and therefore easier for you - getting pounded for 14 turns is no fun at all), and it also makes sense if a) the defending is good, and going for the score would be risky, so better to reposition and wait a turn, hoping for a chink to exploit or b) your opponent leaves your backfield thrower alone, in which case you've received an open invitation to stall.
Once you score on defence and go two up, I find the floodgates tend to open, especially against a weak opponent. That's when you can then rack up the big scores as your opponent loses the plot. unfortunately, High Elves are not so strong a roster that they can often dominate like this - you need freakish stat-bonus players to do that. All their skill rolls have to be spent on survival and defence (with the exception of the thrower) - It's a team that especially suffered when Dauntless was made a trait, meaning all doubles are needed for the more valuable Guard (certainly on linemen, anyway). |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Apr 18, 2008 - 13:02 |
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I'd say receive.
Stall for as many turns as they give you.
Keep your thrower just out of range. Keep an eye out for +MA & sprint players.
I keep one or two players just inside my half to pick up blitzers or to receive a short pass/hand off.
As they come after the ball they will leave more space down field and you should have a good chance to score. 1-0
If you have ony left them 2,3,4 turns to score they will have to be more adventurous so more likely to make mistakes.
On defense be aggresive. Kick deep and go after the ball.
If they are short of time they won't have everyone back and you'll have a chance of a turnover and 2-0.
If they have the full 8 turns go after the ball anyway. As things stand, if they form the cage they are scoring anyway. so don't let it form or force them to go the full length of the field. The more time they spend messing about by their own end zone the more likely it is that something will go wrong. As the clock ticks they start to panic and that is to your advantage.
If they get past you force them to score quickly. Push them in yourself if you have to. You only need two turns. for the winner.
Be sure to have a kicker.
If it's a tournament get a wizard.
Watch replays of experienced coaches.
JBBR is cool if you don't already have it. |
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Eghost
Joined: Oct 19, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 18, 2008 - 13:07 |
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| Kinks wrote: |
It is handy to send two of your players (usually catchers) into your opponents half, so they are just within MA range of the TD line. |
Just 1 player will suffice and with MA8 catchers I wouldn't bother sending them upfield at all, them being a lot faster than bashers anyway.
And the stalling bit, just go ahead and foul, 50% being sent-off means easier stalling for me. I guess you'll have a nice long blacklist very soon. |
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Kinks
Joined: Feb 28, 2007
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| Posted:
Apr 18, 2008 - 13:19 |
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| pac wrote: | | I agree: if I'm confident that my opponent is completely hopeless then I'll happily score and score again without stalling. However, I don't think it would be very helpful if I was to reply to a request for advice by saying: 'Assuming you're a much better coach than your opponent, here's what you should do ...' |
Lol - good point, maybe I should re-phrase that. Assuming my opponent isn't a staler I'd rather let the game be played out.
| Colin wrote: | | a) the defending is good, and going for the score would be risky, so better to reposition and wait a turn, hoping for a chink to exploit |
I agree completely, I don't think you should go for risky TD's if you can push for a better chance. I just don't think you should purposefully stall when you have a guaranteed TD (i.e. dancing on the TD line).
Anyway, I'm not going to continue this argument - I'm sure it could go on all day and a lot of you have probably had the debate before. I'm not likely to change my mind and I doubt I will change yours. I don't deny that stalling is a tactic that requires "some" skill and will increase you chances of winning a game if used correctly. I do however feel not stalling is more fun, more in the spirit of the game and requires a greater level of skill. I know I am not alone in my thoughts and clearly neither are you guys in yours.
I would like to put this to you though - as it was a thought that has accrued to me several times, and I was tempted again yesterday. Would you ever consider "allowing" your opponent to get a TD, so that you could try to get an equaliser rather than risk your defence just slowing down his pending TD without saving enough time for you to equalise? |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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Apr 18, 2008 - 13:30 |
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| Kinks wrote: | | I would like to put this to you though - as it was a thought that has accrued to me several times, and I was tempted again yesterday. Would you ever consider "allowing" your opponent to get a TD, so that you could try to get an equaliser rather than risk your defence just slowing down his pending TD without saving enough time for you to equalise? |
Yes, some coaches do effectively do this. Of course, it's a big gamble as, if your opponent is prepared to stall, it often makes it quite easy for them to do that, too. You do see a lot of defences which do little to make it hard to score quickly, but which put pressure on to make it hard to stretch an offence out.
I can remember lots of occasions where I've defended determinedly, honestly and inventively only to find that my opponent somehow gets the ball free just in time to score in the last turn. The advantages are stacked on the side of the offence in BB and, perhaps sadly, the game doesn't reward he who defends best but he who controls the game to make sure he spends as few turns as possible defending. |
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runreallyfast
Joined: Sep 08, 2006
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| Posted:
Apr 18, 2008 - 13:33 |
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| Quote: |
Would you ever consider "allowing" your opponent to get a TD, so that you could try to get an equaliser rather than risk your defence just slowing down his pending TD without saving enough time for you to equalise?
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Not only would I consider it, I do it, it seems to me, nearly every time I play as skaven or elf against a much stronger team.
If I can defend, I do. But, often, it's just not worth it -- and how can players who're trying desperately to prevent an inevitable TD assist with my gangfouls? In open matches I tend to respect a good player who has managed to form a cage, and just concentrate on trying to beat up his 6 non-caging players with the remnants of my 11 defenders.
I try like mad to prevent a safe cage from forming; if it does, and I have a leaper, I'll go for the ball if it seems plausible or if there's no other way to secure a win or tie. Once formed, though, there are a lot of elf teams that can't really break in. |
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Kinks
Joined: Feb 28, 2007
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| Posted:
Apr 18, 2008 - 13:34 |
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| pac wrote: | | I can remember lots of occasions where I've defended determinedly, honestly and inventively only to find that my opponent somehow gets the ball free just in time to score in the last turn. |
Tell me about it! Well if it makes you feel any better when I choose to bitterly defend yesterday it payed off, I got a lucky break and scored the winning TD  |
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TexMurphy
Joined: Apr 05, 2008
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Apr 18, 2008 - 14:09 |
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Thanks for the replies guys.
Few comments about the replies.
Not recieving is an interesting option. Ive found it harder to defend against basher shorthanded then to play offense. But doing this I would not dare to be agressive in my defense as it usually gets someelf hurt. Ill play around with this tactic
Getting me a Kicker is a good idea as them starting deep down field is always nice and since I have the speed to get into the backfield (and I already try to) this is gonna be good.
Regarding stalling. I play 1-1.5 hour games to have fun. Winning is fun but its more fun to activly play and to be intellectually challanged. Sitting on the goalline for 15min just clicking "TURN" is booring to me. I dont find it fun to play players who do that. Id rather loose 5-1 to a player who activly out plays me then one who just sitts there. Thats just me though and I dont expect others to play the way I like but I do choose who I play on how they play.
This is why I have a hard time with "prolong the drive". Though if it becomes an active tactic where one has to pick up blitzers and move the thrower then its ok. Because its active and requires thought, movement and actions. But still if a opportunity to score at reasonable risk opens up then really Id just hate my self not to take it. If there is a 6 step move with thrower and a quick pass to catcher who then can reach endone without GFI well then I will be taking it.
Back to my own offense.
I do use GFI quite a bit and Ive suffered from it. Ive used it from the stressed need to score. Maybe just cuting back on GFI usage would prolong my posessions (and minimize possession turnovers). Turnovers from GFI can result in unnecessary pressure put on thrower.
Ill start with that and see how things go.
So action plan.
*Less GFI on offense
*Get a kicker to make sure the opponent starts deeper down their field
Tex |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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| Posted:
Apr 18, 2008 - 14:38 |
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| TexMurphy wrote: | | Regarding stalling. I play 1-1.5 hour games to have fun. Winning is fun but its more fun to activly play and to be intellectually challanged. Sitting on the goalline for 15min just clicking "TURN" is booring to me. |
Which is not something you'll get the chance to do often when stalling as elves. Any stalling you attempt to do will be a challenge, I promise!  |
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pizzamogul
Joined: Jun 13, 2005
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| Posted:
Apr 18, 2008 - 14:50 |
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| pac wrote: | | TexMurphy wrote: | | Regarding stalling. I play 1-1.5 hour games to have fun. Winning is fun but its more fun to activly play and to be intellectually challanged. Sitting on the goalline for 15min just clicking "TURN" is booring to me. |
Which is not something you'll get the chance to do often when stalling as elves. Any stalling you attempt to do will be a challenge, I promise! |
Putting together a turn-consuming ball-control drive is much less intellectually challenging than running a half-dozen players into scoring position and throwing a TD pass to one the following turn... jeesh Pac, get with the program! |
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TexMurphy
Joined: Apr 05, 2008
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| Posted:
Apr 18, 2008 - 15:02 |
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| pizzamogul wrote: | | pac wrote: | | TexMurphy wrote: | | Regarding stalling. I play 1-1.5 hour games to have fun. Winning is fun but its more fun to activly play and to be intellectually challanged. Sitting on the goalline for 15min just clicking "TURN" is booring to me. |
Which is not something you'll get the chance to do often when stalling as elves. Any stalling you attempt to do will be a challenge, I promise! |
Putting together a turn-consuming ball-control drive is much less intellectually challenging than running a half-dozen players into scoring position and throwing a TD pass to one the following turn... jeesh Pac, get with the program! |
Sorry I started this side discussion. Its nothing to do with the subject of how to get out of the 1-2 score situation against bashers.
tex |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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| Posted:
Apr 18, 2008 - 15:05 |
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Try and delay the score if you can afford to. Just the same though dont be afraid to score early if you must, just learn to defend well.... either by cagebreaking or reaching the ball before it cages. |
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Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced." |
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