Pro511
Joined: Aug 14, 2006
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 Posted:
Sep 07, 2008 - 17:51 |
 
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| Nemeton wrote: | | The problem with putting it into the UserGuide is that it becomes semi official. While most agree on Orcs and Humans - there aren't that much agreement on many of the other teams. |
I agree. And therefore disagree with many of the picks in the initial post and "user guide."
Have we even established what "easiest" means? Easiest to win? Easiest to learn? There are clearly folks in this thread who differ on that fact.
I'd strongly caution against taking elves as a newbie team. Someone with decent experience can retire a newbie with an elf team without much effort. I certainly wouldn't take them over dwarves.
If you make newbie blunders with dwarves, you lose the game. If you make newbie blunders with elves, you lose your team. Not much fun for a newbie. |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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Sep 07, 2008 - 18:00 |
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Orcs, amazons, and norse make good training teams. It's easy for orcs to get 2d blocks and they don't break easily. This will allow the new person to concentrate setting up the pass/td and defense...and not stress over risking blocks and dead players.
Amazons are great since they have access to 4 skill categories and can have a fully ready team from the get go.
Norse have all access too, and with all the block, the new person doesn't stress over failed blocks and can usually out block most other new teams. |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Sep 07, 2008 - 18:57 |
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As always, I recommend Undead, on the basis that every player's role is easy to figure out. Humans often frustrate newbies when they think Blitzers are Blockers and what-not. Orcs are fine, but not very exciting. |
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elf_gurl
Joined: Jul 29, 2008
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Sep 07, 2008 - 19:04 |
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I've added a note to the article to say "this is subjective, opinions do differ".
Also, I've pointed people to this thread so they can find everyone's views.
edit - NB. What I posted to the User Guide did change from my initial ideas, because of what people said in this thread. Anyone else who feels inclined to can edit the User Guide as well. |
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Manbush
Joined: Nov 08, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 07, 2008 - 19:13 |
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Norse are pretty good for new players, they will show you the importance of the block skill, and hopefully they will get you used to the concept of your players dying. I recommend undead for new players, since there is a good range of players on that roster to try things with. Orcs and humans are the standard teams, and new players will learn from using either team. But all I can say is just play, play , play! whatever teams you start out with, don't be discouraged by early losses. It takes experience and practise to win here, no matter how good you think you are. Once you learn the game and the standard of playing that the fumbbl community ditcates, go back to norse and unlock the killing machine within them  |
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catmando
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
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Sep 07, 2008 - 19:34 |
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I think Humans & Orcs are best for beginners, followed by Norse or Amazon.
DO NOT start with Undead if you're brand new to the game. I wish I knew this starting out.
Dwarves give away too many skills to start with and waaaayyyy too much access to strength skills on top of that. "Lemme see, my first skill pick for my Longbeard is, um, GUARD!!!" No surprise there. Anyone can win a game with Dwarves. New players should start with a team that actually helps them to learn the game. Just my opinion however.
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Panda_
Joined: Jul 14, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 07, 2008 - 19:38 |
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I don't really think Hummies are good for beginners. Sure you can learn a lot. But getting through the first step is hard. Plus human winning rate make it hard to hang in the game. Skavens aren't good starters team too (you can learn a lot with skavens, but you will flee the game because of their life expectancy). |
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vanGorn
Joined: Feb 24, 2004
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Sep 07, 2008 - 20:00 |
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Blood Bowl is a game with many facets. We need to try them all, to get the whole experience not just a share. |
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aerofool
Joined: Jun 11, 2008
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| Posted:
Sep 07, 2008 - 20:27 |
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For new players, the all out best has to be Humans. They run around average stats and contain all basic skills of pass, catch, block and dodge from the begining. Using the positionals allows a new player to better learn what each position is intended for and strategy is much better grasped. Plus, a Big guy is available to field for players who are intimidated by the bash, however I strongly reccommend a new player not center their team around a big guy.
Orcs are second on my list. Once a player gets Humans worked out, these guys are the obvious next step. Here a new player is introduced to Blockers, Stunty, and TTM. |
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canaries
Joined: May 05, 2004
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Sep 07, 2008 - 20:40 |
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Orcs and humies, of course good choices for all the above mentioned reasons. But if someone has a fancy for some team, they´ll just have to put in the games there and learn that type of game. Woodies can do things no other team can and even just two linemen left on the pitch can win the game for you. As my safe and good team to start with I always recomend undead though. Theyre fast, and pretty bashy and then theres the expendables. MA7 ghouls allow you to open the cage faster and run for the TD. CD are ok for the same reasons. Avoid vamps, ogres, halflings, gobbos and rotters. |
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Kryten
Joined: Sep 02, 2003
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Here's how I break them out:
Best
Orc
Undead
Dark Elf
High Elf
Both orcs and undead are durable and provide clear differentiation between players - it's easy to get 2 dice blocks with ST4+ players. Dark and High elves are mobile and relatively durable.
Ok
Amazon (good mobility, varied skill access)
Human (average players. Can be hard to set up good blocks due to average ST and AG)
Lizardmen (Easy to set up 2D blocks, but can be difficult to manage due to expensive, fragile skinks)
Chaos Dwarf (solid line of scrimmage, but fragile hobgoblins may be trouble)
Dwarf (very durable, but little forgiveness for positional errors)
Norse (block on everyone is nice, but low armor and frenzy can be a challenge for a newbie)
Not so Good
Nurgle's Rotters (ugly team management issues - lack of apo can be hard)
Chaos (unskilled players suck early on)
Necromantic (expensive, non-regen ballhandling players are targets)
Skaven (low AG low armor linerats get mangled in droves)
Avoid
Goblin (not good for learning fundamentals - stunty teams play differently)
Halfing (not good for learning fundamentals - stunty teams play differently)
Ogre (not good for learning fundamentals)
Vampire (fragile linemen, hard to manage OFAB)
Elf (fragile, expensive players)
Wood Elf (fragile, expensive players)
Khemri (too much focus on damage for a newbie, hard to learn to play the ball)
As an aside, my first team was humans, and I got mauled every game. I was constantly doing 1d blocks because I couldn't get assists in place, and then I suffered many injuries when things failed and my opponents set up strings of 2d blocks. Then I created a lizardman team, and that was great! The heavily armored saurus were able to do 2d blocks by themselves, and the fast skinks did all the ball handling. The team eventually stalled and ran out of cash, but I learned a lot from them.
I expect that the list is different for each new player, depending on temperament, but that hasn't stopped me from putting my list out there. |
Last edited by Kryten on %b %08, %2008 - %01:%Sep; edited 1 time in total |
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Zaghrog
Joined: Dec 09, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 07, 2008 - 21:29 |
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I guess Humans might be a good pick after playing something bashier, to teach more about positioning. I've found that they can well win games if the player is capable of working out assists for a string of 2d blocks. |
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Pro511
Joined: Aug 14, 2006
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Sep 08, 2008 - 00:59 |
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Can I try to back the truck up again and ask...
What is important for newbies to experience?
Winning? Learning player roles? Team building? Passing? Running? Caging? Fouling? Defense? Cherry picking?
Because if we emphasize a different one of these, we're going to pick a different team and play style.
I think it's important for newbies to learn general game tactics (move free guys first, block with guys with block second, caging, maybe passing...)
I think it's WAY to common for newbies to get caught up with team building and blame that for what is really simple tactics and die rolling decisions.
I also think that having a team with armor strong enough to be able to make a mistake or two and not lose the team is important.
For THAT reason, I like Orcs. I think Dwarves help improve your defense, caging and are durable. I even like chaos. They're simple and you won't get caught up with positions. You can focus on the warriors and let the beastmen be interchangeable. Honestly, even lizardmen have simple roles that any newbie can easily see. Agreed, the little guys are a bit fragile and might get killed quickly. I think that humans can be tricky. Misused catchers are fragile. Blitzers are very often misunderstood (as explained above.) Undead are nice, but necro would be very difficult.
Perhaps I should simplify and suggest that: It depends on what style the newbie wants to try first.
Cage and bash is a great first tactic. Because of that, perhaps orcs or dwarves are great to start. |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 08, 2008 - 01:10 |
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the most important thing to master first is how to set up 2d blocks. Orcs are good for this.
Next thing is to set up a screen defense so the ballcarrier can score.
how to position and take damage comes later. beating up a new guy discourages them and they go off to play WoW. |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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| Posted:
Sep 08, 2008 - 02:24 |
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Firstly dont try to teach them to cage, dont try to teach them fouling, dont try to teach them fancy stuff. The first things they need to know are how to block and some kind of vague order to carry their turn out in. Anything else will likely confuse them, remember that they probably dont have even the most basic BB instincts so unless you really emphasise them you risk them mis-interpretting a really minor piece of your advice.
Two teams spring to mind:
total beginer or as good as = Orcs
played TT with some measure of success = Norse
Orcs are great for a brand new player because you can mess up really badly and still have another go. You also have some St 4 for easy 2D blocks to teach you how good they are as well as being able to pick up the ball and at least move it.
Norse are really good for a developing player because they show you just how good block is as well as requiring slightly more deft play than orcs. Once someone has got the hang of making assists and doing 2D blocks as part of a co-ordinated turn then this is the team for them.
After they have got the hang of norse they should have a reasonable feel for the game. They are then good candidates to learn caging, fouling, elves, and the rest of it.
Good teams for learning the rest of it are...
- Humans
- Undead
- Pro Elves
- Dwarfs
Oh, anything you write about teams to avoid be careful how you word it. Some people think they're being helpful when they say "you cant use this team, you're not ready for it"... in fact they will often be interpretted as mean and patronising. Try something like "these teams are a challenge, we wouldnt recomend them to new players so if you do try them then dont be alarmed if you lose"... or something  |
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