Diabl0658
Joined: Oct 05, 2004
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 Posted:
Sep 27, 2008 - 06:15 |
 
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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Sep 27, 2008 - 09:20 |
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| Jenner wrote: | | MagmaBeast wrote: | | By the way +ag only help making and accurate ttm it does not change the chance of throwing the little guy so i would advise against it on troll and tree. |
It does, however, reduce the chance of fumbling the bugger. |
No, I'm afraid it doesn't. This should probably be addressed under this topic, since misconceptions here are common.
Let's take the example of an AG 2 Ogre throwing a Goblin 7 squares forward (a typical TTM throw). We'll assume no TZs or other unusual conditions.
7 squares forward is a Short Pass on the range ruler, extended to Long Pass because it's TTM. This means a -1 modifier on the agility roll.
There are three possible results (assuming Bonehead is passed): accurate, inaccurate and fumble.
Accuracy requires a success on the agility roll. AG 2 equates to a 5+, and with the -1 modifier we need a 6. (Note that with AG 1 we would also need a 6.)
A fumble occurs on a natural 1, but also, like any other throw, on a modified 1. With the -1 modifier, we get a fumble on 1 or 2. (Again, note that this is the same as for AG 1.)
An inaccurate throw occurs the rest of the time: 3-5. (Again, the same as AG 1.)
So, in the first place we can say that AG 2 is no different from AG 1 for most throws. (It would be slightly better - better accuracy, same fumble chance (1 only) for Quick Pass range throws, but those are rarely useful. For anything longer, it makes no difference.) So if your Ogre gets -AG, don't let it affect your decision to TTM or not!
In addition, this also demonstrates how little difference giving a single +AG to a Troll or Tree makes to their TTM ability.
Now, how does +AG affect these odds?
For accuracy, AG 3 means a base of 4+ for success. With the range modifier, the throw will be accurate on a 5 or 6.
The fumble chance is unaffected - AG 3 has not removed that -1 modifier - so an AG 3 Ogre still fumbles on 1 or 2.
Inaccurate is left as 3 or 4.
So, is this gain worth it? You are getting a slightly increased chance (from 1/6 to 2/6) that your Goblin will land in the square you intended and will gain a +1 bonus to its landing roll. It's pretty marginal, in my opinion.
I would definitely not take +AG on a Big Guy solely for TTM purposes. If I had other uses for that +AG - say, an Ogre on an Ogre team who I wanted to use to carry the ball - then using that player to TTM too would certainly do no harm. However, that should not be the main reason. |
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Vampy
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Sep 27, 2008 - 10:19 |
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Well I still have the opinion that the client has a slight bug or something as I never get +ST and rarely +MA but always get +AG where as my mate never gets +AG but often +ST. I'm not complaining as I prefer +AG to anything else as it suits my style of play (crazy plays) but look at my overview and see how many AG+ I have! Haha 
Anyway, I generally feel that on an ag3 team, +ag is always worth taking as it gives you an edge in the team you didn't previously have. On Ag4 teams it is also always useful as it suddenly makes picking up the ball or dodging into high risk areas so much easier.
Actually, I generally always take +ag. I can't think of many circumstances why I wouldn't unless the player wouldn't benefit from it. I love the agiliiiiitttyyyy!!!  |
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vanGorn
Joined: Feb 24, 2004
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Sep 27, 2008 - 10:28 |
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Although I knew that break tackle or guard would probably have been the better choice for Abe, I still couldn't resist to accept Nuffle's gift.
And anyway you know, that with an attractive well trained body he'll get more commercial contracts.  %) |
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Gimme a pint of fungus beer!
Then we will climb the ladder.
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Manbush
Joined: Nov 08, 2005
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Sep 27, 2008 - 10:29 |
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I take AG on everything I use except mummies and big guys. I especially like getting it for ag2 teams like Khemri. Getting an ag boost on an ag3 team like Chaos, Norse, Humans, etc is a huge bonus, even if it's just to catch the ball for skill-up completions. AG combined with Guard or DP can become a lot of fun for one of the game's coaches |
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Happy is the person who can laugh at himself. He will never cease to be amused
I put the liquor in the same bottle his and mine, and mine was at the bottom, and, sure, I was obliged to drink his to get at mine |
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nin
Joined: May 27, 2005
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Sep 27, 2008 - 18:44 |
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+ag on ag1 players isn't usually good. Exception: Saurus, an alternative to Skinks is nice... not to mention the "scoring with Saurus" teams.
+ag on ag2 on the other hand is better, I'd usually take it on Bulls, Khemrians, Zombies, Dwarves and Flesh Golems.
+ag on ag3+ it becomes rethorical.
(some weird exceptions may arise imho, like a ma5 Mummie in a Khemri team) |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Sep 27, 2008 - 19:02 |
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As a "Human" coach here is my take on it. ALLWAYS TAKE THE +AG. Every postionaly benefits from it. Ogres now have 50% shot to receieve the ball, so threat of an Ogre with the ball is allways there, might get lucky and get another +AG on the Ogre. All the other postionals on the human team can use it because it compliments their main asset, SPEED. That age old debate of High Elves VS Humans allmost allways comes down to the Elves with AG4. SO if you get lucky and have 4 or 5 Humans with AG4 now you can play a bastard form of elf ball with more speed than a High Elf team. Speed and AG4 are killers if you are trying to win only. If you can get some +AG then the other strengths of the Human team start to really shine.
Every other team, I will let all the other coaches decide for themselves.
Note: I have learned through bitter disappointment that a Human team with no +AG on any postional will allmost allways "Choke" at the most critical time of the game when trying to "ball". I cant count how many time I have scene 2 reroll 2, FAILED! |
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arw
Joined: Jan 07, 2007
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Feb 01, 2009 - 15:24 |
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For Dwarves and other AG2 guys it ...depends ^^
The higher developed your team is the better +Stat becomes.
Guard and MB will be better than +AG (or +MA) on a Longbeart. On the other hand you'll have 'em anyway sooner or later. After Guard & MB +AG (and +MA) is better than any regular skills.
So: +AG for 1st skill on that Longbearts team is weak for now- it will be great for the developed 200TR Dwarves they might become though.
Hence you'll have to think about long term development vs. short term competitiveness. |
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ultwe
Joined: Dec 25, 2004
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Feb 01, 2009 - 15:40 |
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Couldn't coach him worth sh*t, but I am sure that in the correct hands, he could have been useful
tu peux courir, va... |
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Yeah, Nuffle sucks... That's because I play crap
π is aproximately 3.142 times better than any other food |
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Eddy
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
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Feb 01, 2009 - 15:43 |
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Apart from the whole "necromancy" issue...
arw, the problem is that you don't need +AG on a Longbeard anyway. You simply don't. It costs TR and TS for nothing. It's probably better to have a Dwarf with just Guard and MB and to retire him and train another if he doesn't roll anything interesting (doubles or +ST or +MA).
+MA is a very different story. What keeps Dwarves from being extraordinary players is the generally low MA on the team. Increasing that is very good. |
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'The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance.'
Robert R. Coveyou |
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Ironik
Joined: Jun 28, 2004
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Feb 01, 2009 - 15:57 |
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Nobody asked about should I stay or should I go. What about it eh? |
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Gromrilram
Joined: Aug 28, 2006
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Feb 01, 2009 - 16:05 |
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Gromrilrams choice
take ag on nearly everyone.
i dont take it:
- on ag1 players
- on bigguys other than ogre or some special players (break tackle ag2 players sometimes)
the special topics mentioned:
saurus:
i ont know wether i would take it. nice alternative to the skinks, but sauri can get a lot of nice skills before they row useless. block guard break tackle mighty blow... now its 50/50 for me so i think my lov for stats would make me take it
longbeards:
take it. when you roll no doubles, a longbeard is done after guard and MB. so take the ag. when you roll doubles and get standfirm, th +ag gets even better. |
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Every problem can be solved by a Desert Eagle .50 |
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Zombie69
Joined: Jul 02, 2007
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Feb 03, 2009 - 23:31 |
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I used to refuse AG upgrades on all AG2 and AG1 players except khemri and bull centaurs. Now i'm the only way around. I'll take all +AG except for mummies and big guys. Every other type of player can make use of extra AG, especially in a highly developped team (where good alternatives to the AG become rare as you reach the 3rd or 4th skill) and in tournaments (if only for wizard protection).
If you don't focus on the long term potential of your team and only play in open ranked (no wizard), then +AG is a waste on most low AG players. Otherwise, take it, you'll eventually be glad you did! |
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Eddy
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
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Feb 04, 2009 - 00:14 |
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It's true it gives variety, but it is also a dead weight in both TR and TS most of the time. It also delays the player's efficiency by so many SPPs. |
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'The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance.'
Robert R. Coveyou |
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zakatan
Joined: May 17, 2008
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Feb 04, 2009 - 00:31 |
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I don't play dorfs or lizards so i won't talk about +AG on those teams. But gladly take +AG on any of my players regardless they are rookie or experienced. I think the bonus is so great. My Beastman developed fast and nice thanks to that +AG when he was rookie (and good rolls afterwards...), becoming the ballcarrier and passer of the team, allowing to pass the ball with a good confidence in case it is needed.
On the other hand, I'd cry in joy if any of my khemri skellies rolled +AG, specially this one. Unfortunately, it isn't in Nuffle's plans. Once i got a +AG blitz-ra that died the game after. That's all. |
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