odi
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Jun 16, 2010 - 10:31 |
 
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| bxnyc wrote: | | whatabout giving everyone on a high MA team wrestle instead of block? has this been tried? I would think it would work almost as well, taking both players down and the high MA team just runs completely away after using it to clear some TZs |
Works pretty well actually, I've given most of my skaven linoes wrestle. Getting those slow high av players prone, leaves openings and they'll never catch up. Now if they would stay alive to get fend too  Also helps getting the ball loose.
Claw is usefull, since there naturally are more bashers than ball players in the game finder, usually if I want a chance of making a casualty, I'll blitz with my mighty blow vermin, but if a stun result can guarantee a get away, it'll be the claw vs av9 teams. |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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Jun 16, 2010 - 11:05 |
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For a chaos team, I would would develop one player with claw/MB/PO as hitter against heavy opposition and the other one with MB/PO/tackle as hitter against the dodgy types. Both eventually converge into block/tackle/frenzy/MB/PO/claw. Just via different routes. |
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Celyn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jun 16, 2010 - 11:06 |
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Claw before MB makes little sense, but the combination of both is quite potent. The omission of Block is mainly a TV concern, I think. You simply have to prioritize harder; Block/Guard/Tackle Beastmen are expensive and might not cut it in the Orc matchup. And, if you want to win tournaments considering that matchup seems important. |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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Jun 16, 2010 - 11:07 |
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| Grod wrote: | | Claw is vastly inferior to Mighty Blow in LRB 5/6. In LRB 4, it had similar strength. |
No way. Claw is vastly superior to MB in LRB4. Expcept if you only play vs flings or gobbos, where it breaks even. |
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Timlagor
Joined: Feb 13, 2009
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Jun 16, 2010 - 11:16 |
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..and in LRB4 Claw is significantly better than MB (I'm pretty sure but haven't actually done the maths: if I'm wrong perhaps I shouldn't have taken those claws..[though clw/rsc is definitely better than mb/rsc or claw/mb]) |
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Fela
Joined: Dec 27, 2004
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Jun 16, 2010 - 11:54 |
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Actually, in the same vein you could ask: 'is tackle really worth it?'
Claw is now a counter to AV>7 the same way tackle is a counter to dodge when blocking. |
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Rijssiej
Joined: Jan 04, 2005
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Jun 16, 2010 - 12:06 |
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| CircularLogic wrote: | | Grod wrote: | | Claw is vastly inferior to Mighty Blow in LRB 5/6. In LRB 4, it had similar strength. |
No way. Claw is vastly superior to MB in LRB4. Expcept if you only play vs flings or gobbos, where it breaks even. |
I disagree.
Against AV8 or below (most teams) MB is better than claw for causing cas.
Against AV7 or below MB is better than claw for causing KO+.
Claw is only superior to MB in LRB4 when you mostly play against AV9, highly value stuns or combine it with RSC. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Jun 16, 2010 - 12:11 |
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Who doesn't valute stuns highly????
There's not only cas. Stuns win games. |
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freak_in_a_frock
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jun 16, 2010 - 12:12 |
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Very valid point Fela. But would you pick tackle before block on every player? In fact would you pick tackle on every player? The original point is that a lot of chaos (and more commonly Chaos Pact) teams seem to be ignoring block with the new ruleset and going for claw, then mightyblow on most of their players. I was just questioning whether claw has been nerfed so much that it now is far less useful than a lot of coaches seem to think it is. Or if in fact this is a good way to develop a chaos team.
I think this evolved form the 'is +AV worth it' topic. One of the comments in that topic was 'You bring your AV10 Chaos troll, and i'll bring my Claw one'. It got me wondering if claw does become rife in the new Box division then surely there will be a influx of bloding woodelves laughing at the claw laden chaos teams. In fact these Blodging Woodies will not only out-score the chaos teams, but probably out cas them too. At the moment there is a lack of tackle in the Box, excluding dorfs of course. This has increased the value of dodge. All of a sudden i am seeing a lot more lizard and amazon teams entering the Box. Claw is now so specific that i don't see the value in picking it for more than one or two players. Anymore then surely you will just become a victim of power-gaming. |
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On1
Joined: Jul 12, 2004
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Jun 16, 2010 - 12:54 |
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this thread describes why the blackbox format works way better in lrb6. so many counter/counter rock, paper , scissors skills!! |
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Fela
Joined: Dec 27, 2004
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Jun 16, 2010 - 13:47 |
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| freak_in_a_frock wrote: | Very valid point Fela. But would you pick tackle before block on every player? In fact would you pick tackle on every player? The original point is that a lot of chaos (and more commonly Chaos Pact) teams seem to be ignoring block with the new ruleset and going for claw, then mightyblow on most of their players. I was just questioning whether claw has been nerfed so much that it now is far less useful than a lot of coaches seem to think it is. Or if in fact this is a good way to develop a chaos team.
I think this evolved form the 'is +AV worth it' topic. One of the comments in that topic was 'You bring your AV10 Chaos troll, and i'll bring my Claw one'. It got me wondering if claw does become rife in the new Box division then surely there will be a influx of bloding woodelves laughing at the claw laden chaos teams. In fact these Blodging Woodies will not only out-score the chaos teams, but probably out cas them too. At the moment there is a lack of tackle in the Box, excluding dorfs of course. This has increased the value of dodge. All of a sudden i am seeing a lot more lizard and amazon teams entering the Box. Claw is now so specific that i don't see the value in picking it for more than one or two players. Anymore then surely you will just become a victim of power-gaming. |
That's more or less my point, in the long run i'd expect claw as a niche skill for 2-3 dedicated blitzers. Just like tackle is for non-dorf teams. |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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Jun 16, 2010 - 14:02 |
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Tackle becomes more niche in LRB5... wrestle and frenzy are great pseudo-tackle skills. |
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Rijssiej
Joined: Jan 04, 2005
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| Posted:
Jun 16, 2010 - 14:17 |
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| JanMattys wrote: | Who doesn't valute stuns highly????
There's not only cas. Stuns win games. |
Stuns rarely win games compared to KOs and cas. |
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nin
Joined: May 27, 2005
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| Posted:
Jun 16, 2010 - 14:19 |
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The "it's new" explanation hit's it imho
+ Div5 is open so you can play bashers and win or, if those refuse to play your Claws, you pick on av7-8 and lose but keep on the teambuilding (teambuilding is quite appealing with the new toy... and some basher tipes will play any matchup against "shoft" teams, no matter if they lose)
In a BlackBox tipe division (or at least an open and competitive division, where you have to find matches and win them) I would expect teams taking the first Claws as utility skills, just 1 or 2, like DP or Tackle.
A matter of circumstances probably. |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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Jun 16, 2010 - 15:25 |
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| Rijssiej wrote: | | JanMattys wrote: | Who doesn't valute stuns highly????
There's not only cas. Stuns win games. |
Stuns rarely win games compared to KOs and cas. |
So if someone would offer you to exchange all MB for LRB4 claw, you would decline? |
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