| Poll |
| Doubles on a Wrodge Witch Elf, so... |
| Mighty Blow - because despite Wrestle, it's still Mighty Blow. |
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28% |
[ 13 ] |
| Guard - because it's an elf team. |
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4% |
[ 2 ] |
| Piling On - because WE's already have Jump Up. |
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8% |
[ 4 ] |
| Juggernaut - because it goes so well with Frenzy Wrestle. |
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45% |
[ 21 ] |
| Ignore - because nothing else really helps her do her job. |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| Something else - because of what I say below. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Witch Pie - because it's pie. |
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10% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 46 |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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 Posted:
Apr 14, 2014 - 15:11 |
 
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Because Lineman and Runner start without Frenzy and Dodge, a frenzied block/blitz has more odds of knocking down a blodger.
The Lineman with Wrestle can be used as ball sacker, and I do that often, but a frenzied blitz is way better, Witch Elf's MA 7 and Dodge give more precious mobility.
The Runner is a ball carrier and needs Block, not Wrestle, and using 2 Runners is a waste, you need just one of them and he gets Block.
I didn't say that every turn you have to risk your Witch Elf just because you can, or blitzing in cages every turn, you wait for the good moment to blitz.
If you don't want to risk your players you'll never play Elves well because at some point of a game you have to risk, btw a Wrodge Witch Elf is expensive but not so full of skills, so easily replaceable. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 14, 2014 - 16:34 |
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I understand all that, but you are talking about very specific circumstances. For me. If you are getting 4 dice on an opposing ball carrier then they have done some very very wrong and you should be able to get him down regardless anyway. Sackers in my experience tend to only get 1 dice or half dice against a ball carrier. Ocassionally 2, but with frenzy if the first rolls were push backs the follow up roll will almost always be 1 dice at best. Personally I think it is just too big a risk unless you get a St4 frenzy player with sacker skills.
As for the runner, having tried him a number of times I am of the opinion he sucks and I would rather just have a blitzer carry the ball and just leaving the Runner at home.
For me a Witch will always be for surfing and bashing when the opportunity arised. Doubles are always MB PO. PO doubles with JU, and block works better with bash skills than wrestle. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 14, 2014 - 16:39 |
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Here's my take on DEs and doubles.
Lineelfs get guard 100% of the time, no exceptions, even on 5,5 because MA on line elfs is not worth it. They then hopefully live to get blodge/sidestep at which point they no longer need any more spp.
WEs get MB, and on a 2nd double get PO, on a third double you ignore it for tackle/block/side step and eventually fend or something silly. On a 5,5 you can consider the MA, but only if you already have an MB or two.
Blitzers get MB and then PO on a 2nd double unless you already have 2 MBs on the team then they start getting Guard. On 5,5 you can consider the MA, but only if you don't already have an MA8 player and already have 1 or 2 MB and 1 or more guard.
Those are the only 3 types of players on DE teams anyway, so I'm not sure about these 'runners' and 'assassins' I keep on hearing about.
As to taking wrestle over block on the WE. Well I always consider it with my witches, but I always wind up going for block anyway. Without AG5 and leap the benefit of wrestle and then strip oh and maybe tackle is just wasted on your witch. Garion already said it. You can take wrestle on a couple line elfs, and they are basically as good. Ideally you want the ag5 leap somewhere, but doesn't everyone? |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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| Posted:
Apr 14, 2014 - 17:01 |
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@Garion
In most cases I don't break cage with delves. It must be a really special player, or really special circumstance to make it happen.
So I usually don't leap into cage, frenzy into cage. I try to stop the cage instead. Typical stalling defense is what I mean. Then the opponent has 3 options:
1. Remove a player each turn, so that I cant do that.
2. Soften the defense on the ball carrier (which is not really recommended)
3. Slide to the sideline and try to grind through.
Fortunately delf teams have built in features against those tactics, as armor 8 is more than average, and the witch elf is a super surfing threat, thus heavily counters the option No3. If I had a jugg witch, then it would make it extremely consistent. |
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sorat
Joined: May 27, 2012
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| Posted:
Apr 14, 2014 - 17:09 |
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Ask HER! |
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 60/6/200/400 |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 14, 2014 - 17:14 |
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Yes, DE can play some nice defense even if they don't have some kind of war dancer clone to go for crazy ball pops.
To me the way to do it is with blodge/side step/diving tackle, rather than with a witch who can surf stand firm (and fend) players. Since stand firm and fend are not that common, and, with a couple diving tacklers you can eventually mark the parts of the cage you don't want to move and then force the opponent to open things up.
However the most effective elf defense is the one which is not down players. So being able to remove the opposition a bit more easily throughout the game really carries much more benefit than anything else. The nice thing is it doesn't even really matter who you remove. Just getting those little fodders out so that they can't screen/cage/mark as easily is highly effective.
It's almost like blitz a skink strategy vs. lizards. You just keep on hitting whomever the lowest AV player on the pitch is, and after 5 or 6 turns of bogging down their cage ideally you've taken of 2 or 3 (let's not be greedy) and you're playing 8 v 8 or something which far more favors elfs.
Granted, dwarfs or orcs might be a bit of an issue to this, as those are the two AV9 majority teams who also might take some stand firm, but meh, not every matchup can be favorable for every strategy  |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 14, 2014 - 17:17 |
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| bghandras wrote: | @Garion
In most cases I don't break cage with delves. It must be a really special player, or really special circumstance to make it happen.
So I usually don't leap into cage, frenzy into cage. I try to stop the cage instead. Typical stalling defense is what I mean. Then the opponent has 3 options:
1. Remove a player each turn, so that I cant do that.
2. Soften the defense on the ball carrier (which is not really recommended)
3. Slide to the sideline and try to grind through.
Fortunately delf teams have built in features against those tactics, as armor 8 is more than average, and the witch elf is a super surfing threat, thus heavily counters the option No3. If I had a jugg witch, then it would make it extremely consistent. |
Exactly my point tactically and why Wrestle is not they way to go for witch elves. I am not bashing juggernaut I actually think it is better than a lot of people think. However MB is still superior. Juggs can have its place though. However talking about the player in question who has Wrestle Juggernaut is even more of a waste that it normally would be.
But tactically I couldn't agree more. - https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&id=3554645
That match above I did exactly as you described. A nice tight defence, although with pro Elves, its all much the same really and boy did I wish I had Frenzy lots of times in that game. |
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Last edited by Garion on %b %14, %2014 - %17:%Apr; edited 2 times in total |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 14, 2014 - 17:19 |
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yeah imagine how much better she would be if she had block.
0.84 cas a game.... not great tbh, especially as she should be blitzing every turn near enough. |
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zakatan
Joined: May 17, 2008
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| Posted:
Apr 14, 2014 - 17:20 |
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| Garion wrote: | | oh and Jugs doesnt go well with Wrestle as the poll suggests. |
It can help hiding the bad choice wrestle was in the first place 
good synergy indeed. |
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sorat
Joined: May 27, 2012
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| Posted:
Apr 14, 2014 - 17:38 |
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| Garion wrote: |
yeah imagine how much better she would be if she had block.
0.84 cas a game.... not great tbh, especially as she should be blitzing every turn near enough. |
My lady doesn't want to talk with you. Please go away.
(*talking to his witch* "shhh darling, he's a bad guy, he doesn't understand you... you're my... precioussss..." |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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| Posted:
Apr 14, 2014 - 17:58 |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 14, 2014 - 18:34 |
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Lol... Piling On with extreme prejudice, hella buff and rowdy  |
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Frankenstein
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 14, 2014 - 18:44 |
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Lol, Jimmy, priceless  |
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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| Posted:
Apr 14, 2014 - 19:29 |
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| licker wrote: | | a witch who can surf stand firm (and fend) players. |
I think you're missing the point, licker. It's not about stand firm for me, that's a bonus (as is the ability to ignore fend and wrestle). It's about going from 2 push results to 3 push results on every block die that counts. It makes surfs so much better odds (from 30% on a 2die, 2die to 56% on a 2die, 2die, no reroll). It's the same kind of improvement tackle adds to your chance of hitting a goblin when you have block. <3 jugger surfers. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 14, 2014 - 19:32 |
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aye... but really... which noobs let themself get surfed apart from when it is a cunning trap |
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