Harpick
Joined: Oct 07, 2023
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 Posted:
Oct 24, 2023 - 17:28 |
 
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I played a lot vampires in LRB6 and these one are close.
I might have a different playstyle than you, but for me :
Thrall : Kick for the first one that get to 6 SPP, then random generals for the others, hopping to get block or wrestle.
Thrower :
first one : leader then dodge, block, sidestep
Other one : dodge block sidestep, then probably stat
Blitzers :
That I don't know. Right now I would say pro first, then dodge, then tackle for one, block for the other one
Runner, only one :
Dodge, Block, Sidestep, stats
Dodge is the most important skill for vampires as I play them (and many "BB2016" vampire players agree), since you don't block that much, often you want to start your turn with an hypnogaze to blitz the right guy. This way you can dodge your vampire to do so before anything else without having to burn your rerolls on it.
And it gives your vampires as more sustainability than block, since ealry, few players in opposing teams have tacle. Blitzers don't need block early for me, since they already have juggernaut to prevent turnovers. |
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Malmir
Joined: May 20, 2008
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Oct 24, 2023 - 18:11 |
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Playing against vamps right now and their vamp failed bloodlust in turn 8 whilst carrying the ball. I assumed he'd need a dodge to make it to the endzone to be next to a thrall, but instead he went in the endzone and then walked another square in the endzone to get next to the thrall. Is that a bug? I think it either is a bug or is a rule fail. My oppo disagreed and neither of us were the slightest bit biased  |
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Harpick
Joined: Oct 07, 2023
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Oct 24, 2023 - 18:50 |
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In my opinion, it's not clear. In BB2, it was like you said, being in endzone is instant turnover if no thrall next to you.
Here it says that "at end of activation" must bite, but not clearly stated that being in end zone ends activation in that case.
I would say like you, but Imo a FAQ is required on this topic. Wouldn't be the first time GA state a rule different of what it used to be. (and on a flavor point of view, there's no reason after crossing the line thirsty, he don't make an extra step to drink) |
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Gridironman
Joined: Mar 18, 2022
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Oct 24, 2023 - 21:28 |
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| Harpick wrote: | In my opinion, it's not clear. In BB2, it was like you said, being in endzone is instant turnover if no thrall next to you.
Here it says that "at end of activation" must bite, but not clearly stated that being in end zone ends activation in that case.
I would say like you, but Imo a FAQ is required on this topic. Wouldn't be the first time GA state a rule different of what it used to be. (and on a flavor point of view, there's no reason after crossing the line thirsty, he don't make an extra step to drink) |
If there is no thrall it is considered a turnover--per the rules If they do not bite a thrall for any reason then a turnover is caused, the player will lose their tackle zone until their are next activated, and will immediately drop the ball if they were holding it. If the player was in the opposing End Zone, no touchdown is scored.
According to GW: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/09/21/blood-bowl-how-the-vampire-team-rose-again/
A more efficient rule resource: https://mordorbihan.fr/en/bloodbowl/skills/2020 |
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An Amorican Nuffler that bashed in his youth. |
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Gridironman
Joined: Mar 18, 2022
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Oct 24, 2023 - 21:31 |
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| Harpick wrote: | I played a lot vampires in LRB6 and these one are close.
I might have a different playstyle than you, but for me :
Thrall : Kick for the first one that get to 6 SPP, then random generals for the others, hopping to get block or wrestle.
Thrower :
first one : leader then dodge, block, sidestep
Other one : dodge block sidestep, then probably stat
Blitzers :
That I don't know. Right now I would say pro first, then dodge, then tackle for one, block for the other one
Runner, only one :
Dodge, Block, Sidestep, stats
Dodge is the most important skill for vampires as I play them (and many "BB2016" vampire players agree), since you don't block that much, often you want to start your turn with an hypnogaze to blitz the right guy. This way you can dodge your vampire to do so before anything else without having to burn your rerolls on it.
And it gives your vampires as more sustainability than block, since ealry, few players in opposing teams have tacle. Blitzers don't need block early for me, since they already have juggernaut to prevent turnovers. |
These skills and order of acquiring them sound correct based on Spookeh's reasoning. I am sure your old method for vamps can be applied to the current blitzers. |
_________________
An Amorican Nuffler that bashed in his youth. |
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Gridironman
Joined: Mar 18, 2022
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Oct 24, 2023 - 22:24 |
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What I wonder is if my ball carrier suffers bloodlust BUT hands the ball off to a player already occupying a space in the end zone will that be a TD or a turnover? A non-bloodlust player would have rolled to catch and would have registered a score in my opinion prior to the bloodlust being accounted for as a turnover. According to the rules the turnover only involves the blood lusted character BUT it is the order of operations that matter here. For instance, would the handoff immediately incur a bloodlust turnover ending the drive before a catch can be accounted for prior to even registering a TD? That probably deserves an FAQ.
Note: Keep in mind that I am refraining from drinking blood with a vampire in this instance. |
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An Amorican Nuffler that bashed in his youth. |
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EinVoegleinImWind
Joined: May 31, 2023
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Oct 24, 2023 - 23:10 |
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| Gridironman wrote: | What I wonder is if my ball carrier suffers bloodlust BUT hands the ball off to a player already occupying a space in the end zone will that be a TD or a turnover? A non-bloodlust player would have rolled to catch and would have registered a score in my opinion prior to the bloodlust being accounted for as a turnover. According to the rules the turnover only involves the blood lusted character BUT it is the order of operations that matter here. For instance, would the handoff immediately incur a bloodlust turnover ending the drive before a catch can be accounted for prior to even registering a TD? That probably deserves an FAQ.
Note: Keep in mind that I am refraining from drinking blood with a vampire in this instance. |
It is a turnover since you need to bite before hand-offs or passes. The ball never reaches the player in the endzone. |
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Harpick
Joined: Oct 07, 2023
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Oct 25, 2023 - 00:20 |
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Yes this is explicit in the rules. I'd just add that you still can try, 1/8 chance that when your vampire drop the ball, he does it on your target  |
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ClayInfinity
Joined: Aug 15, 2003
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Oct 25, 2023 - 00:23 |
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And you have to declare the hand-off before the blood lust roll as well. You can't elect to hand off based on the Blood Lust roll.
You can elect to move rather than block but you can't elect to hand off or pass. |
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MrCushtie
Joined: Aug 10, 2018
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Oct 25, 2023 - 00:37 |
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| Malmir wrote: | | Playing against vamps right now and their vamp failed bloodlust in turn 8 whilst carrying the ball. I assumed he'd need a dodge to make it to the endzone to be next to a thrall, but instead he went in the endzone and then walked another square in the endzone to get next to the thrall. Is that a bug? I think it either is a bug or is a rule fail. My oppo disagreed and neither of us were the slightest bit biased |
I think a bloodlusted vamp can't walk through the end zone to get to a thrall to bite. Last line of the Bloodlust rule: (my emphasis in bold)
"If a player who failed this roll wants to make a Pass action, Hand-off, or score then they must bite a Thrall before they perform the action or score."
and then page 64 of the rulebook:
"A touchdown is scored when a Standing player in possession of the ball enters a square that is within the opposing team's End Zone without Falling Over or being Knocked Down"
So it's:
If you enter the opposing team's end zone with the ball, a touchdown is scored, except if you have bloodlust and can't bite a thrall upon moving into the end zone. It's not "If you enter the opposing team's end zone with the ball and bloodlust, a touchdown is not scored until you have reached a thrall to bite them" |
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Gridironman
Joined: Mar 18, 2022
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Oct 25, 2023 - 00:45 |
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That answers my question then |
_________________
An Amorican Nuffler that bashed in his youth. |
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Harpick
Joined: Oct 07, 2023
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Oct 25, 2023 - 09:56 |
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| MrCushtie wrote: |
"If a player who failed this roll wants to make a Pass action, Hand-off, or score then they must bite a Thrall before they perform the action or score."
and then page 64 of the rulebook:
"A touchdown is scored when a Standing player in possession of the ball enters a square that is within the opposing team's End Zone without Falling Over or being Knocked Down"
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Still, that doesn't explicitly says that crossing the endzone in that case end your action. An other understanding of the rules could be that you are not allowed in any case to cross the endzone with a bloodlusted vampire carrying the ball (this one is really farfetched). |
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TheGe
Joined: Mar 31, 2015
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Oct 25, 2023 - 16:49 |
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Well, as the oponement of Malmir I could be biaised, but...
Regarding the fluff I do not see why the vamps could not go to the Thrall by the endzone.
The rule is here to state that if the vamp do not bite he throws the ball down so there is no TD scored. In my case he is able to bite so no throwing down of the ball ==> TD.
If you consider entering the endzone is an auto end of turn due to TD, then you should not resolve the bite... |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Oct 25, 2023 - 18:11 |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Oct 25, 2023 - 18:16 |
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| Harpick wrote: | | Still, that doesn't explicitly says that crossing the endzone in that case end your action |
I think it does...
TD is scored when "player in possession of the ball enters .. the end zone"
And then "As soon as a touchdown is scored, play stops"
So there should be no option to continue roaming around the EZ
1) The TD is scored
2) The Vamp is fixed into his current square as play stops
3) A turnover has happened
4) 2 and 3 both would mean the vamp's activation is over
However, Bloodlust rule says
After event 4) and without biting, "if the player was in the opposing End Zone, no touchdown is scored"
I think this means the TD is retrospectively undone
Then the vamp will drop the ball and cause a turnover, because it ended activation without biting
Which actually sounds fine
You could argue that events 2,3,4) should also be cancelled, but then we're in a paradox |
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