PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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Well another way of looking at that is they ARE looking for help.
Thats what i did when i joined. I lost badly. Went online and said something along the line of 'wow, im really lost. where do i start?'
I wonder if id met you shadow, would i have stayed.
It staggers me that you cant see you're part of the problem frankly.
Perhaps in stead of ridicule and agression you should think about meeting people/questions you see as 'beneath you' as genuinely beneath you, and just leave them alone, for other slightly more philanthrpically inclined individuals to help or respond to.
Walking doen the street you see a lost tourist, looking unhappy and uncomfortable.
Im advocating talking to them and trying to help.
At the very least ignore them and walk on by.
You seem to point, ridicule, and then often punch them in the face.
I'm left wondering what you think this achieves and why you bother? |
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Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intelligor illis -Ovid
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone |
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shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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 Posted:
Feb 17, 2008 - 13:14 |
 
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| Pirog wrote: | | If you object to being an elitist that is not a very intelligent way of defending yourself. Do you often find yourself attacking people that you feel have no use in real life as well? |
did i object to being an elitist?...if you want to consider the fact that i expect people to think and not be a mindless peon...then sure, call me elitist, see if i care...
and for the record...if people who have no use, go about telling the world about how they have no use....then you're damned right i'm going to open up on them...funny how i never really attack anyone who doesn't prove to be a moron....isn't it?
| Pirog wrote: | | Nobody can demand of you to be helpful to newcomers, but why not just shut the hell up and ignore them instead of constantly being rude about it? Do you think your derogatory posts to them brings the community more than their questions does? It only makes you look like the kind of person that can only feel big by belittling others. |
wow pirog....coming down to my level are we?....it's not like you to tell someone to shut the hell up....what's wrong princess, getting a little riled up?
and no, i don't need belittling others to feel big...i'm quite capable of being secure, confident, and egocentric without the abuse of others to bolster my emotions....i do that for sheer entertainment value, and i find it humorous that the only people who cry about it, are the thin-skinned brats like you who can't take someone telling them what they really think....
--j |
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| origami wrote: | | There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet. |
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shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 17, 2008 - 13:20 |
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| PurpleChest wrote: | | It staggers me that you cant see you're part of the problem frankly. |
what problem is that?...that this community doesn't have a 100% "oh look at the cute little newbie!!! let's be his bestestestest friend in the whole wide world and worship the ground he walks on!!!" mentality?...you're right..i am a part of that problem...and i'm damned proud to be a part of that problem...
as for your tourist analogy?....funny, last time someone asked me for directions, i gladly took a few moments and helped the poor guy along...granted, i don't think i gave him the best help, seeing as i wasn't entirely sure where he was going...but i at least got him on the right track...
see, that's the difference....that guy came to me with an intelligent question....
that's all i'm asking for....someone who, instead of saying "OH NOES!!!! what do i take on a first skill?!?!?!! help me now!!!!"....comes out and says "yeah, so i've tried to find some answers, but i'm not really succeeding etc" or something along those lines...
is it really too much to ask for people to show some initiative in trying to find the answer instead of asking the entire community to shut down to help them?
--j |
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| origami wrote: | | There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet. |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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no, maybe it isnt.
But is it too much to ask that you understand your viewpoint of what IS an intellegent question comes from a massive wealth of personal wxperience, knowledge and skill. Their question doesnt.
If i dont know something and have the courage to say so, in an open forum where hostilty, jokes and banter ARE very commonplace, i would see that the act of asking in itself as quite an intellegent response.
I still dont get why you feel yourself as a fit 'gatekeeper' judging the approach of new players. if they bore you, frustrate you or annoy you, ignore them.
Dont pick the scab. |
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Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intelligor illis -Ovid
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone |
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shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 17, 2008 - 13:29 |
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purple....the information exists within *very* accessible reach....
if the information wasn't here to begin with, i could understand your reasoning, and would be totally behind it....but the fact of the matter is most every basic building block of knowledge for this game is *somewhere* on this site, and a huge chunk of it is gathered in the FAQ section in the links....
i can understand someone coming in with an advanced question that could spawn some intelligent coaching discussion...but the generic run of the mill crud is useless and just fodder
--j |
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| origami wrote: | | There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet. |
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Pirog
Joined: Jul 13, 2006
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| Posted:
Feb 17, 2008 - 13:38 |
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| Quote: | | i can understand someone coming in with an advanced question that could spawn some intelligent coaching discussion...but the generic run of the mill crud is useless and just fodder |
But at the same time your flaming posts where you ridicule these people for not living up to your standards is ok, because what? Because you are a highly intelligent person able to hold advanced coaching discussions but simply chose not to? |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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you have a point there. I'll cede that. the sort of informational questions(especially) that are very easily found do tempt even the best of us into snide responses.
And i would estimate that for every 5 hostile responses to such a question, the 6th would likely still point then in the right direction.
Yet the point of the 5 hostile responses eludes me, even though at times ive likely been one myself. Maybe we need a 'only the first guy to respond gets to taunt the obvious idiot' rule.
Also maybe sometimes we get stuck in such behaviour as a default.
You could always look at it another way, that every idiot you help onto fumbbl is another easy win waiting to happen, but if we all ask a little of ourselves, at some time, in some way, to give back to this STILL FREE site and encourage others to enjoy it, then it should continue to thrive as it is. |
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Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intelligor illis -Ovid
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone |
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paulhicks
Joined: Jul 19, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 17, 2008 - 13:44 |
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I remember joining this site nearly 4 years ago. i was brought here by a friend of mine and i thought i was a brilliant bloodbowl player as i nearly always beat the 3 or 4 people i regularly played against... took me about a week to realise i sucked.
i was lucky enough to have somebody who took the time to patiently explain to me that this was because i had gone from playing agaisnt a small group of coaches who always used the same tactics and had played maybe 30-40 games as opposed to the coaches on here who played 100's of different opponents. in turn he was lucky enough that i actualy listened to him. not everybody does this when you try to explain these things to them.
i remember during my first 6 months i had a generaly great time but often felt offended by the atitudes of some of the longer term coaches. often they had an "i found this site first so your opinion isnt worth squat" atitude which i still sometimes see now. having spent more time on the net now i generaly believe that this is true of a lot of sites (and also a lot of real world situations) and is not just a problem of fumbbl.
i would really love to see some kind of advice given out when people join the site. if i remember rightly (and assuming it hasnt changed) you get a confirmation e-mail when you join and your account is created, it would be cool if this e-mail included a link to a "welcome to fumbbl" advice pack (kinda thing). this could contain the same advice i was lucky enough to get about the differences to playing in a small group, advice about academy and team builds, info on hot topics such as fouling, stalling etc (as well as advice to just do it if its the way YOU want to play), how to search old forum topics etc. i know all this information is out there, it just might save the newb (and us) some time if it was all sent to them in easy to accsess format..... its just a thought.
Also since we have foccused somewhat on Shadow i thought id say a bit about my feelings about him.
when i first came accross shadow i thought he was a dick. i thought he was rude and said things just to cause offence. in a lot of ways i was right  . however having spent more time talking to him and reading what he has to say ive grown to love shadow. he says what he believes without feeling that he has to sugarcoat it for anyone. from shadows point of view i would guess that he'd consider it an insult to lie to you (thats just a guess, my mind reading skills are not what they once were).
Shadow is arguementative but in my opinion the forums need people like that. it'd be very dull without them. i've come across some people who do just post ofensive things for the sake of getting a reaction and being noticed... shadow is simply being honest. he is blunt and to the point and doesnt use smilies to hide his insults. you gotta love honesty like that....
... even if he is a dick
edit... wow in the time it took me to write this another page and a half got posted |
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Spelling, grammer and sense are for noobs! |
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def909
Joined: Oct 25, 2005
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| Posted:
Feb 17, 2008 - 13:50 |
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| PurpleChest wrote: | | Every month or so i try and adopt a noob. talking to them at length a couple of times and maybe spectating a match with them, or that they play. Several of these have stayed and grown and become good fumbblers. I would urge any veteran coach (100 games or more) to be trying to do the same. And to do so fairly, offering them advice not just to recreate 'your niche gaming choices' but introducing them to the whiole variety of fumbbl play.. |
This "adopting a noob" thing got me thinking... There should be an easy way for noobs to find a mentor. I´d happily help new coaches learn the game on a regular basis, but I only ever do it when I stumble upon a noob on gf. Maybe there should be an option during registration
[ ] I already know the game, bring it on
[ ] I´m new to the game and need someone to teach me the basics
Experienced coaches willing to help noobs could register and be informed by christer/staff about new coaches requesting help.
Just a thought |
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Don´t ask Nuffle for better dice, ask him to make you a better coach. |
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SmilinMatt
Joined: Oct 03, 2007
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| Posted:
Feb 17, 2008 - 14:02 |
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What surprises me is I totally agreed with Shadow's first sizable post in this thread (not counting the little one line one). Could have written it myself. I think people are so gun-shy of that kitten they just assumed it was flaming.
When I started on this site, I was welcomed with open arms (and pointy boots). Of course I also try to search for answers on the site, which cut my noob questions by 95%.
Have any of you been part of a regular scene at a comic or gaming shop? Jeebus, the guys on FUMBBL are downright cordial compared to experiences in my past. And the smell is monumentally better. |
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hotspurstu
Joined: Feb 14, 2007
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Feb 17, 2008 - 14:06 |
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I think there is some truth to the topic of this thread. Like others have already said, I encountered both helpful and less than helpful people on the site when I joined and while I was trying to improve. To be honest though, I can't see that this is any different to many other aspects of everyday life.
When I joined FUMBBL I read and re-read everything in the help section and that coupled with the advice from coaches who played me early on, left me with a decent understanding of what was going on. I do think that some new members fail to take the time to do some background reading about the site and the game played on here. This can then leave them in a position of saying/asking things that gets a negative response. I can't remember what thread it was, but one guy was complaining about how an admin treated him when he asked about how many SPP's a player needs to get skills. If he'd taken the time to read the rules then he would have had no problems. But he didn't and got torn apart by the community as a whole (also, from reading his own posts, you could tell the guy was a complete mong).
I think the site has plenty of helpful advice about joining, setting up the client, using IRC, creating teams, tactics and so on (it must have, because I'm a dummy and I'm still here). If you're the sort who expects everything to be handed to you, then FUMBBL/Blood Bowl probably isn't for you. |
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"When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my Grandfather did. -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car" |
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shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 17, 2008 - 14:09 |
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| SmilinMatt wrote: | | Of course I also try to search for answers on the site, which cut my noob questions by 95%. |
i don't think anyone needs me to state why i'm quoting this...
--j |
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| origami wrote: | | There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet. |
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PeteW
Joined: Aug 05, 2005
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| Posted:
Feb 17, 2008 - 14:17 |
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When I first came here shadow "punched me in the face" and I thought he was a rather rude and unpleasent fellow. However, I didn;t let him put me off the site and instead got involved in whatever was going on. It took me ages to find the FAQ button (cos I am stupid) and up till that point I regularly used to annoy people with my stupid questions, and got abused and helped by various factions on fumbbl.
Now I have been here for 2.5 years I have grown to know shadow and although he is caustic and rude, he does have such lovely hair.
See? How can you hate him now? anyone? ANyone? Bueller?[/img] |
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"Jesus loves me this I know, 'cos my Bible tells me so." MrMojo - where did you go? |
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CaienCamelle
Joined: Jan 13, 2008
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| Posted:
Feb 17, 2008 - 14:19 |
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| SmilinMatt wrote: | | What surprises me is I totally agreed with Shadow's first sizable post in this thread (not counting the little one line one). Could have written it myself. I think people are so gun-shy of that kitten they just assumed it was flaming. |
You mean the one which starts...
| Quote: | | let's play "retort the idiocy" shall we? |
I'd not particularly noted Shadow as being a troll before, but after that post it was difficult to do anything else. The whole tone of it was mocking, hostile, arrogant, and generally failing to deal with any issues of substance.
What it did succeed in was prompting a huge argument about Shadow's personal merits, which I'm sure he finds a good substitute for other kinds of emotional fulfillment. It is the kind of behaviour that makes me wonder whether there's an 'ignore user' button.
If you can't see why that kind of post is offputting, then you lack basic social and emotional competence.
The number of people who think that FUMMBL is a welcoming forum based on posts like that is probably why, of the half-dozen or so online communities I participate in, this one is the least welcoming. |
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shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 17, 2008 - 14:22 |
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| CaienCamelle wrote: | | I'd not particularly noted Shadow as being a troll before, but after that post it was difficult to do anything else. The whole tone of it was mocking, hostile, arrogant, and generally failing to deal with any issues of substance. |
yeah, sure, i'm a troll...but i'm one of the few trolls around, that doesn't do it just to push your buttons and incite BS....i do it to expose faulty logic, and to say the things that everyone else already thinks, but is too shy/scared/timid/whatever to say...shame we can't all have the balls to speak our mind....
| CaienCamelle wrote: | | What it did succeed in was prompting a huge argument about Shadow's personal merits, which I'm sure he finds a good substitute for other kinds of emotional fulfillment. It is the kind of behaviour that makes me wonder whether there's an 'ignore user' button. |
i'm curious....
people around here know me....they grasp the concept that i'm not here for "emotional fulfillment"...
but why is it that every time i speak my mind on a subject, everyone immediately jumps to the conclusion that i'm some fractured little boy with permanent emotional scars?
it's always amusing to see how long it takes someone to come to that bogus conclusion 
for the record...i'm not the one who constantly feels it necessary to start speaking about my personal merits...granted, in this case, my personal "helpful" merits are relevant, but whenever the conversations turn towards my personality, or lack thereof, it's not at my request....so feel free to turn your psychobabble towards the other peons and try your luck elsewhere, mmkpumpkin?
| CaienCamelle wrote: | | If you can't see why that kind of post is offputting, then you lack basic social and emotional competence. |
hmmm...show me someone who said that my tone was a beacon of warmth and graciousness?....
| CaienCamelle wrote: | | The number of people who think that FUMMBL is a welcoming forum based on posts like that is probably why, of the half-dozen or so online communities I participate in, this one is the least welcoming. |
funny, i don't remember anyone ever citing me as a paragon of happy happy joy joy for this site...in fact, even the people i consider friends, openly admit i'm a jerk...and the fact of the matter is...SO DO I...but like paul said...every site needs people who speak their mind, who say the things that nobody else is going to...i don't have any issue taking up the call...
if you're using me as your example as to the level of "welcoming warmth" on this site, then you're in for a long career of disappointment....
might want to buckle in, you're screwed with that mindset...
--j |
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| origami wrote: | | There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet. |
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