JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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 Posted:
Apr 18, 2008 - 15:06 |
 
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TexMurphy, if you stall by sitting on the end zone and click TURN without doing anything, you are either playing a n00b or cheating.
Challenge me, and I can grant you will not be able to sit there doing nothing with your brain turned off. I will force you to score and I will make you use your brain in the process, or you will lose the game.
Also, remember that if someone stalls against you it's because of your poor defence. So stand up your players, fight back, and never give up. It is easy to stall when the opponent gives up, but only good coaches can stall for a prolonged time against a good defence.
Try to challenge a high CR coach and stall for 8 turns. I bet you will NOT be able to do that without losing the ball. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Apr 18, 2008 - 15:07 |
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| TexMurphy wrote: | | pizzamogul wrote: | | pac wrote: | | TexMurphy wrote: | | Regarding stalling. I play 1-1.5 hour games to have fun. Winning is fun but its more fun to activly play and to be intellectually challanged. Sitting on the goalline for 15min just clicking "TURN" is booring to me. |
Which is not something you'll get the chance to do often when stalling as elves. Any stalling you attempt to do will be a challenge, I promise!  |
Putting together a turn-consuming ball-control drive is much less intellectually challenging than running a half-dozen players into scoring position and throwing a TD pass to one the following turn... jeesh Pac, get with the program! |
Sorry I started this side discussion. Its nothing to do with the subject of how to get out of the 1-2 score situation against bashers.
tex |
In fact yes, it does.
IF you stall on your own offence, bashers will not be able to tie 1-1 before halftime, and if they try anyway their cages are likely to be less solid and careful, leaving holes for a potential 2-0 in your favor. Putting time pressure on Dwarfs and Khemri is the keypoint for beating them.
Stalling is THE winning tactic for bashers, but also against them. |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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Apr 18, 2008 - 17:12 |
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| TexMurphy wrote: | | Sorry I started this side discussion. Its nothing to do with the subject of how to get out of the 1-2 score situation against bashers. |
It's not a side discussion (pizzamogul agrees with me, he's just joking - though that may be hard to spot, and he will post again to deny it). And it has everything to do with how to avoid getting beaten 2-1.
Please, watch a few replays of my (or pizzamogul's!) games with elves against bashers. I don't think either of us lose to them 2-1 too often - although it does happen. What you won't see much of in them is sitting on the TD line clicking turn. What you will see a lot of is entertaining play by elves who are determined to win! |
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nin
Joined: May 27, 2005
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Apr 18, 2008 - 22:22 |
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Stalling is not unsportive, it's just a tactic, not doing your best to win can be much worse. Still, stalling when the match is decided, like fouling when there is nothing to win is a matter of taste.
And, very important for me, stalling when you have 10 Guards vs 4 Linemen is booring, but when your elves are running for their lives and you risk to fail an important dodge every turn, and stalling with 8-7-6-5 players and countdown, is really fun (plus, it's probably your opponents fault)
Imho kicking first can be a problem with elves (mostly Wood Elves at high TR) because Tackle, Migthy Blow, Claw, RSC and DP are common enougth (losing 2-4 players, including the Tree to a foul, in the first turn is quite a posibility) |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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Apr 18, 2008 - 22:49 |
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| nin wrote: | | Imho kicking first can be a problem with elves (mostly Wood Elves at high TR) because Tackle, Migthy Blow, Claw, RSC and DP are common enougth (losing 2-4 players, including the Tree to a foul, in the first turn is quite a posibility) |
If that's going to happen, it's going to happen. Better it happens early so you know the scale of the task. Also - while all their most dangerous players are menacing the LoS and half their team is setting up the gang foul - they're not looking after the guy with the ball! |
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Panda_
Joined: Jul 14, 2004
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Apr 18, 2008 - 23:25 |
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If you don't want to lose 1-2 with your HE to bashers, go fighting, never give up. Don't understand what i didn't say. If you go toe toe, you would probably lose the battle. But you need to know when to put pressure, and how much you have to commit. Elfs can win a localised fight, but not probably all over the field.
To put pressure on them, you should delay your 2turn score a bit. Scoring T4-5 give them enough time to focus on the score (rather on your players), and it gives you some chances to score a 2nd TD.
Later when you learnt how to annoy them accordingly, you can stop them 8 turns during the 2nd half. But be wary, this isn't easy and often you can't stop them.
The best advices i can give you is to try. Try and watch some replay around TR140-180.
| nin wrote: | | Imho kicking first can be a problem with elves (mostly Wood Elves at high TR) because Tackle, Migthy Blow, Claw, RSC and DP are common enougth (losing 2-4 players, including the Tree to a foul, in the first turn is quite a posibility) |
That's why big bashers took a while to win a major, that's why elfs were dominating the scene. |
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Last edited by Panda_ on %b %18, %2008 - %23:%Apr; edited 1 time in total |
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TexMurphy
Joined: Apr 05, 2008
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Apr 18, 2008 - 23:28 |
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I got home today really inspired to play and to try out new stuff against bashers.
I played a undead team roughly the same TR as my HEs.
They get to recieve so I think nice I get to defend with full team.
Half way through the drive Ive got 1 player knocked out and apothecary used (got a SI on one of my blitzers). He scores in end of his 8th. Though he didnt really stall much he just rolled on.
By start of second half Ive got a few knockouts and one SI. Hard to do much starting with 7 players. By end of my drive my best player a catcher with MA +1 is dead and a handfull are knocked out. He scores on a turnover. On the kickoff he gets to blitz and since Ive got like 5 players now it leads to another TD. On my next position I just try to finish the game without any more cas. All in all I had 2SIs (1 of them cured), 1 RIP and I think 3 BH this not counting knockouts.
So much for improving my play against bashers.. :/
I guess him having a luck rating of close to 75% and me around 45% could have something to do with it. Felt like he rolled like a king pimp and me like a chump.
Wasnt even fun. I enjoy the game even when I loose but a game like that wasnt fun.
So anways now its a few games of just trying to outlive the game and getting a few players back.
Hopefully I wount have to scrap my team.
Tex |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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Because it cant be said often enough:
1. Listen to Pac (or any actually knowledgable coach)
2. Spectate other coaches playing in High Elf games.
3. Try the races you find tough and especially seek out games AGAINST High Elves.
Just three steps to heaven. |
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Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intelligor illis -Ovid
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone |
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Whitesun
Joined: Jul 25, 2006
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Apr 19, 2008 - 00:15 |
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I happened to see that game. Backing off and doging every time does not work. You had several chances to block his players, but you chose to dodge. Invariably, you will roll a 1 for a dodge eventually, considering you dodge out 6+ players a turn.
Also, by backing off, you let him position his players as he likes and advance without any chance of a CAS. You might want to try playing a little more aggressively. Playing elfs lets you pick where you want to strike more than most other races, so backing off without throwing a block each round isn't helping your cause.
Anyway, it's part of the learning curve. Goodluck with the rest of your games! |
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Tappajasorsa
Joined: Mar 03, 2008
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Apr 19, 2008 - 11:21 |
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Whitesun is absolutely right. You need to fight back.
When the ball is in a cage, leaping in for a strip is unlikely to succeed. It's always an option (ag4 with a reroll dodges in a cage about 57%) even without leap, but this desperate tactic is best left for the last turns of the match.
The real answer to a cage is fight. A cage takes 5 players. If you ignore his cage and attack his remaining players with your full team, you'll beat them (unless they are ogres). If you manage to beat some off the field, you'll be able to assault the cage afterwards.
Even if you cant, he wont be able to stall or injure your players in the process. Most likely, he'll open the cage to support his players that are in trouble and suddenly you have a decent shot at the ball carrier.
You can also try to separate some of his players from others and if they are slow players, you'll then achieve temporary superiority where you desire - near the cage.
More aggressive play and build your team to fight. And for God's sake, get some dirty players. |
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Ehlers
Joined: Jun 26, 2006
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Apr 19, 2008 - 14:06 |
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If you want to see a really good coach play HE, then look at kfoged Nandorins
Wished to improve my own HE, so looked at his games and learned a bit or two
Use all the other tactics and advises the other coaches have gived, but if you do want to score in 2-3 turns with HE, then you need to hurt the other team fast and good.
On defence I have some success with during this against teams:
Get 1 mand behind the cage, 1 square from the cage.
Place 4 players infront of the cage (1square from it), make 2squares between them and then have them standing 2 and 2. One facing towards the cage, the other behind him to able to block next turn.
Try to push his cage towards one of the sides. Put 1 or 2 players on the left side of the cage (again 1square from it) to try to push his cage towards the right side of the field.
Then place your other players so they are in blitzing range and other duties you find important.
If you are playing it right, the cage might not be able to move at all and have to fall back or only move 1square per round
Place your liniemen close to the cage. Have your other high mobility players roam the field as you like.
HE has av8, so they can play the basher game too. Always take the 2dices, if 1dice and you have block then take it, for 2dices most of the time dodge out or dont stand up or stand op to force him to block. If you have a blodger then he can be a pain in the ass if the other does not have tackle.
Else good luck with playing HE ^^ |
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TexMurphy
Joined: Apr 05, 2008
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Apr 20, 2008 - 11:43 |
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Funny thing is that Ive done horribly since I started this thread....
Ive had like 6 elfs die on me in about as many games. Ive had a load of SIs as well.
I reallized why.
Im over working things inorder to "change something so that I do better". One result of this is that the number of blocks I do per game has gone down. The number of blocks he gets in has maybe dropped a little but he gets much more quality blocks in now.
I need to go back to basics.
*Support each other on blocks and ball handling
*Use speed to create 2 roll blocks
Also one thing. Luck. BB is not about Luck. Ive been creating situations where I depend on luck instead of creating situations where I get independent of luck.
This said though Ive had some extreamly bad luck on kickoffs. For the 6 games Ive been struggling badly Ive avged like 50% Blitz result on the kickoff table. It makes it hard to create any offense with that many Blitzed kickoffs.
Tex |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Apr 20, 2008 - 11:49 |
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Tex: drop your cheerleader and assistant coach.
Start a new HIgh Elf team with no positionals, just 11 linemen, 3 rerolls and all the fan factor you can get.
FF 1 is NOT acceptable for elves, who get very expensive linefodder. Also, high FF helps the kickoff table.
(and sure you don't need two phoenix warriors at a time) |
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Tappajasorsa
Joined: Mar 03, 2008
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Apr 20, 2008 - 12:32 |
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Unfortunately, he's right. You must start over.
FF is extremely important for keeping the cash flow steady. Also, the dreaded "get the ref" goes to the side with more FF. |
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TexMurphy
Joined: Apr 05, 2008
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| Posted:
Apr 20, 2008 - 12:48 |
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