JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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 Posted:
May 21, 2008 - 10:06 |
 
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| CircularLogic wrote: | | Well, as much as I cannot prove, that the racial factor is skewed due to factor that more inexperienced coaches are drawn to orcs, you cannot disprove it. |
1- It's up to the father of a theory to prove it, and not up to the disbelievers to disprove it.
2- I think you're right, btw.  |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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| Posted:
May 21, 2008 - 10:19 |
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| JanMattys wrote: | | CircularLogic wrote: | | Well, as much as I cannot prove, that the racial factor is skewed due to factor that more inexperienced coaches are drawn to orcs, you cannot disprove it. |
1- It's up to the father of a theory to prove it, and not up to the disbelievers to disprove it.
2- I think you're right, btw. |
Yep - Orcs are the easiest of the bashy teams to win with in my view. Strong, well armoured, agile. Newbies being attracted to them pulls their win % right down. My first ever team on FUMBBL was 13/15/23 Orcs, and when I picked the race up again later, 20/1/2. I'd think all coaches, team builds and game schedules being equal (and I know - it's never going to be any of those things, so proof is pretty impossible!), behind Woodies and the two AV8 Elven teams, they'd be 4th on average win % across the TR ranges. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
May 21, 2008 - 10:23 |
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| Purplegoo wrote: | | My first ever team on FUMBBL was 13/15/23 Orcs, and when I picked the race up again later, 20/1/2. I have clearly learnt to better pick my cherries. |
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NonkelvanGrauwel
Joined: Apr 23, 2008
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| Posted:
May 21, 2008 - 10:24 |
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I think one thing that is at fault is the team discription in the book. You read the bit about orcs and you think you're gonna waltz over any other team, but then you find out they're not at the start really stronger than another team, that they go down just as fast as anyone else (but they get hurt less). It's overconfidence that kills the inexperienced orc coach. My first tabletop team in the 2nd edition bloodbowl was orcs and I got pounding after pounding against darkelves and skavens and dwarfs. You just need to re-evaluate the critters and use them differently. Forget about killing other players and concentrate on the ball aspect of the game and the collateral damage will happen more or less by itself. I agree with the harvestmouse here. Drop blackorcs in favor of blitzers, at least these guys move and are still very solid from the start (block and av9) once I started using these guys in pairs as catchers things start looking up really fast. |
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The Nonkel may have only recently joined Fumbbl.com, he was playing Bloodbowl when it was still played on Astrogranite |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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| Posted:
May 21, 2008 - 10:53 |
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| JanMattys wrote: | | Purplegoo wrote: | | My first ever team on FUMBBL was 13/15/23 Orcs, and when I picked the race up again later, 20/1/2. I have clearly learnt to better pick my cherries. |
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Hehe - some good coaches in there chappie, that wasn't a picky team. Orcs are just great.
To be fair, at least when you come after me nowadays you do say you feel like picking my cherry. I need to learn the Mattys way! |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
May 21, 2008 - 10:59 |
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| Purplegoo wrote: | | JanMattys wrote: | | Purplegoo wrote: | | My first ever team on FUMBBL was 13/15/23 Orcs, and when I picked the race up again later, 20/1/2. I have clearly learnt to better pick my cherries. |
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Hehe - some good coaches in there chappie, that wasn't a picky team. Orcs are just great.
To be fair, at least when you come after me nowadays you do say you feel like picking my cherry. I need to learn the Mattys way! |
LIES!
*cough*
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AndyBurns
Joined: Mar 11, 2007
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| Posted:
May 21, 2008 - 11:03 |
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| Quod wrote: | ...
Skill progressions
Black Orc
Mighty Blow, Block, Guard - Faster skill gain due to MB, and more CAS means more chance to win, and less chance your BoB will be tied up by a lino
Block, MB, Guard - Safer but slower
Doubles - Stand Firm/Sidestep, Dodge (SF and Dodge gives your player much more flexibility to attempt to dodge around)
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I'd also suggest Block, Guard, MB. Again, slower due to lower CAS, but better for the team - it's always nice to only present an opponent with nothing but 2-dice-against blocks.
Throwers - yeah, Pac told me in no uncertain terms not to bother with them, and so far that's proved to be true. Sure Hands is their most useful skill, but MA5 makes them too slow for running, and passing is another chancy action. Use blitzers to run the ball - and remember, you don't need the Pass skill to be able to pass (if you really have to!) That said, nobody expects the Orc throwing game! |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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| Posted:
May 21, 2008 - 11:06 |
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| JanMattys wrote: | | Purplegoo wrote: | | JanMattys wrote: | | Purplegoo wrote: | | My first ever team on FUMBBL was 13/15/23 Orcs, and when I picked the race up again later, 20/1/2. I have clearly learnt to better pick my cherries. |
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Hehe - some good coaches in there chappie, that wasn't a picky team. Orcs are just great.
To be fair, at least when you come after me nowadays you do say you feel like picking my cherry. I need to learn the Mattys way! |
LIES!
*cough*
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\o/
That's going in the sig. |
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Tappajasorsa
Joined: Mar 03, 2008
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| Posted:
May 21, 2008 - 12:52 |
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If you strugle with orcs, you shouldnt try anything fancy. KISS-principle applies.
Train your guys:
BOBs: Block, guard, mighty blow. Ignore any doubles. Disregard agility improvements.
Blitzer: Guard, mighty blow, tackle. Standfirm on doubles. Take all stat improvements.
Linemen: Block, dirty player. Guard on doubles. Take all stat improvements.
Thrower: Accurate, block. Strong arm on doubles. Take all stat improvements.
Troll: Guard, break tackle. Block on doubles. Ignore agility improvements.
Goblin: Dont buy any.
Offense:
Cage - play against mobile&agile teams. Thrower passes a short pass into the cage on round 1. Score only on turn 8.
Manmark - play against all others. Use every player available. If opponent is a very dangerous one (developed chaos), ignore the ball. Block&foul.
Defense:
Manmark - make it a fight, dont bother with the ball.
General principles:
Always block 2d (you choose). Do it early in your turn.
Target soft players. Target dangerous players (in that order).
Manmark strong players with your linemen to try and keep them from interfering with the general melee.
Dont concede a game. Ever.
Apotechary is there to save your best players, only.
Have fun and roar every time you cause a casuality. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
May 21, 2008 - 12:56 |
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Uhm. No. 
Have a goblin. The chance to oneturn is nice.
Have a kick-dp lino, which is so much better for your winning chances than a block-dp one. Kick wins you games.
Take StandFirm on BoBs on doubles. That makes your caging so much better.
Other than that, I might even agree. |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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| Posted:
May 21, 2008 - 13:05 |
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| Tappajasorsa wrote: | | Cage - play against mobile&agile teams. Thrower passes a short pass into the cage on round 1. Score only on turn 8. |
Or rather: 'Thrower attempts to pass into the cage. The pass goes wrong, the agile team steals the ball and all your game plan has collapsed almost before the game's started.'
Don't pass! Especially not against agile or mobile teams. |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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| Posted:
May 21, 2008 - 13:11 |
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But against strong teams, passing can be a good option. |
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PorkusMaximus
Joined: May 19, 2008
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May 21, 2008 - 14:09 |
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All advise has been duly noted. Thanks amigos.
My last 2 games were draws which I suppose is an improvement. |
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Dragons
Joined: May 31, 2006
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May 21, 2008 - 14:50 |
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Yes it is, always try to be better, do that by looking on other coaches. If you see a good coach playing orcs spec it and learn. |
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johan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
May 21, 2008 - 15:30 |
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| Tappajasorsa wrote: | If you strugle with orcs, you shouldnt try anything fancy. KISS-principle applies.
Train your guys: |
I have some disagreements, so I'll offer my perspectives:
| Quote: | | BOBs: Block, guard, mighty blow. Ignore any doubles. Disregard agility improvements. |
One or two BO's should go MB first, Block second. You don't want to do this on too many of them, since it eats RRs. Try to get three-dice blocks, especially on the LoS. Black Orks that don't yet have Block/MB should be prioritized for scoring.
Take Frenzy, Stand Firm, Sidestep or DT on doubles. Don't take +AG or +MA.
You don't really need anything but regular skills, though - Block/MB/Guard/Tackle/BT is nothing to sneeze at.
| Quote: | | Blitzer: Guard, mighty blow, tackle. Standfirm on doubles. Take all stat improvements. |
That's solid advice, although some Blitzers may need to get Tackle early. Diving Tackle is a good alternative to Stand Firm.
One blitzer - the first one to roll four straight standard skills - will be your Kicker. Seriously consider retiring Block/MB/Guard/Tackle Blitzers if they roll a fourth basic skill. Strip Ball or Pass Block is still decent, though.
5+5 skill rolls make for a very hard choice.
| Quote: | | Linemen: Block, dirty player. Guard on doubles. Take all stat improvements. |
Yeah, pretty much. One good thing about taking Block first is that you can get some pretty weird players if you go DP first and then get great skill rolls, like this guy . Two or three DPs should be plenty. Non-DP linos need doubles or stat-increases badly, enough that you should fire them on the third skill if they don't get anything good. Block/Tackle is fine, but then what?
Doubles above +MA on a 5+5 skill rolls.
| Quote: | | Thrower: Accurate, block. Strong arm on doubles. Take all stat improvements. |
Nerves of Steel can be highly useful as well (you want Accurate/Safe Throw/NoS). You may do well to run just one Thrower.
| Quote: | | Troll: Guard, break tackle. Block on doubles. Ignore agility improvements. |
I'd go Multiblock or PO before BT. Don't take +MA, either - you will curse yourself at 76 SPP.
| Quote: | | Goblin: Dont buy any. |
That's right, I'm sorry to say. The only use for Gobbos is one-turn TTM, and they're not reliable enough to warrant including in the team.
| Quote: | | Target soft players. Target dangerous players (in that order). |
I'd hit dangerous before soft, if my opponent lets me. That Claw/RSC Chaos Warrior really has to go.
| Quote: | | Dont concede a game. Ever. |
Eh. Feel free to do it as long as you don't have any good players above 51 SPP. You shouldn't have to very often, though. |
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