Ilovpompom
Joined: Nov 25, 2007
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 Posted:
Jul 15, 2008 - 21:43 |
 
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Still that's 15 skills for a vamp, for other rosters that would be 4 or 8 good skills and stat boost.
Zons have dodge and blodge, norse have block and blitzers, orcs/chaos/khem/undead have more strength, dwarves... are dwarves, elves are better with the ball, skavens faster and so forth and so on.
And vamps? Rerolls? If you count on the other player to be nice enough to build with no rr and give you turnovers, you might be disappointed quite often. Sure you can beat other dynamite teams, but schedule your first win against real teams with real coaches for when you'll be TR150 isn't quite nice.
Gaze give you opportunities of good blitzes, without vamps, you have no advantage anywhere.
Thralls are good, very good with some spicy sauce for the real players of the team  |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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Jul 15, 2008 - 22:02 |
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I agree with Sillysod.
Thralls main job is to be food. Let the vamps do the main work. If your team is "all about the thralls", then everytime you bite one off, you lose 9ts instead of 3. Same situation everytime your opponent (easily) CAS's one. Thralls do ok with one skill though. Good to have them be dirty player or have block/tackle. But the more skills your thralls have, the more you're going to cry when your vamp sends one to the grave.
my starting vampire roster
rr2
vamps 4
apoth
7 thralls
ff9
From there, I stock up on food to maintain 11 on the board. then I work on buying RRs and valued players (ie. more vamps). When someone rolls doubles, Leader is considered. also good to have a few cheerleaders when rr are lower than 6.
I also agree that vampires are a lousy starting team for someone learning the game. I recommend orcs, amazons, or dark elves. |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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Jul 15, 2008 - 22:48 |
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Sorry, if you're determined to start by playing against the best TR 100 rosters, I don't see how any particular Vamp set-up is going to help you. You either won't have enough Vamps to inconvenience your opponent or you'll have enough to destroy yourself.
I agree that the target is 4 Vamps and 6 RRs (and plenty of Thralls), but why not start out with those RRs while they're cheap? As an added bonus, you'll be able to use any doubles on something useful rather than Leader.
(And skills don't have to be spread evenly across Thralls - it's quite possible to have a few good ones (who aren't food) and others for eating. Much like Linerats, in fact.) |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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Jul 15, 2008 - 23:02 |
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I forget who it was, but someone pointed out the beauty of a vampire team is their are so many different ways to develop them, unlike ogres, dwarves etc which tend to be cookie-cutter copies of each other. With vampires, their isn't a one-size-fits-all building strategy.
I go high vampires because the best thing a vampire team gets is hypnotic gaze. That's the one edge vampire teams have over all other races. Thralls and RRs won't give you any advantage on any other team...the 4 hypnotic gazes will.
SillySod's hypno-surf is a great example. I never thought of doing that...now I will |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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Jul 16, 2008 - 01:02 |
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| Quote: | | I forget who it was, but someone pointed out the beauty of a vampire team is their are so many different ways to develop them, unlike ogres, dwarves etc which tend to be cookie-cutter copies of each other. With vampires, their isn't a one-size-fits-all building strategy. |
It was EdgeDante, mostly he was talking about developed vampire teams I think though, as starting teams only vary in their vampire/re-roll ratio. I guess that players who want to get their team to an optimal state faster will go with very few starting vampires while if you want to give yourself the best chance from the start you'll need some vampires... how many depends on your daring really, personally I consider two vampires with four re-rolls to be optimal if you really want to win right from the start.
I dont see what your point is Ilovpompom... vampires are designed to be terrible for their first few games and theres absolutely no setup that you can use to change that (without hiring stars and/or having FF1). Looking back at Die Meech, Dies very early record they did absolutely fine anyway, perhaps they were lucky but its not as if the skill deficiet is an insurmountable gap. My WIL vampires won their first two games too... its bad right at the start but its not *that* bad and you'll have a remotely playable team after only 4-6 games anyway. |
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Synn
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
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Jul 16, 2008 - 01:48 |
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My two tips to vamps:
1.) Every vamp after the first takes dodge on their first skill. Turn down doubles until you get blodge on all of them....
2.) Every thrall that rolls doubles gets dodge.
__Synn |
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princevaliant
Joined: Nov 12, 2006
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Jul 18, 2008 - 05:40 |
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I like to start with 3 Vampires, 9 ff, 8 thralls, Apo. I have started with 4 before but that is not for first timers. I haven't checked your replays, but the most important advice I give is this:
Use Hypnotic Gaze
Without lots of HG your team will be doomed to mediocrity. Practice, practice, practice, and always plan for the worst, and have a backup plan, and a backup backup plan. I don't want to go into Vampire skills beyond saying there are too many good Vampire skills to choose, even on normal skill rolls. |
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Laviak
Joined: Jul 19, 2004
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Jul 18, 2008 - 08:31 |
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You can also use the Macavity method of not sucking at blood bowl -- coach treeless flings for a while. If you can win with them, you'll have no trouble winning games when you upgrade to thralls!
...it definitely helped improve my coaching skills  |
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