Pro511
Joined: Aug 14, 2006
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 Posted:
Sep 08, 2008 - 18:32 |
 
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I don't think you're giving them enough credit if you think they can't handle caging. "Put guy between opponent and guy with ball" isn't rocket science.
Even simpler "try to put the guy with the ball somewhere where he won't be blitzed" is appropriate newbie strategy. Recognizing that the opponent will have a turn after yours is pretty fundamental.
I agree with the sentiment of "keep it simple" but there is a base level which is appropriate. |
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Previously intelligent. |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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Sep 08, 2008 - 18:36 |
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| Quote: | | Even simpler "try to put the guy with the ball somewhere where he won't be blitzed" is appropriate newbie strategy. |
I agree. But "caging" is alot more complicated to try and make work. |
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oryx
Joined: Jun 08, 2005
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Sep 09, 2008 - 05:42 |
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yeah, forming a cage is easy and simple. Moving it up the field against someone who isn't an idiot takes a working knowledge of positioning and caging in particular. |
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Brad
Joined: May 16, 2005
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Sep 09, 2008 - 05:55 |
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Just to re-enforce Humans and Orcs, I believe it is best to start with an AG3 team for new players, so they train themselves to think about odds and probabilities instead of, "keep it simple and everyting will work except for snake eyes", which tends to be an easy mindset to get into with Elves. Humans I believe are best for this as you start to learn the value of skills (Surehands+AG3 = Better Odds than AG4 - Actually, thinking of it, any RR+AG3 almost alwyas better than single AG4 roll) |
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Fizban
Joined: Sep 09, 2003
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Sep 09, 2008 - 06:23 |
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Good job on this thread. Lots of helpful advice.
I think I'll use it when I make my next team.
Fiz |
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Daudy
Joined: Aug 28, 2008
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Sep 10, 2008 - 11:28 |
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Warning! Novella Ahead! XD
I'm still relatively new so bear with me. Since I've started, I've created quite a few different Academy teams and have recently created a Stunty Leeg team and also my first ranked team (which I've played two matches with so far). When I came to FUMBBL, I had read stuff about BB and knew the bashy teams from the non-bashy teams but that was about the extent of my knowledge - since I had not played an actual RL game before.
My first team was actually Dark Elves and while they were okay, I didn't think they were a very good team to start with due to their expensive cost and complicated positionals like the Witch Elves. I only actually played one game with them before creating another team and have since come back and used them.
My second and third teams were Human and Chaos Dwarf respectively. While as a new guy, I liked playing as humans I hated the fact that the catchers only had Str 2. The chaos dwarves were also my first attempt at a team that could be semi-decent at bashing. Unfortunately for me, in the first game for both my teams, a heap of players were Serioiusly Injured or Killed which forced the retirement of them. I did learn the importance of assisting blocks in those games though XD
Further down the track, I created an Orc and a Pro-Elves team (a skaven one too, but I haven't got around to using them yet). I found the Orcs to be very enjoyable to play as a new guy as my team included my first Big Guy and his new associated rules (including TTM). However, it was with the Elves that I really started to play seriously with and become more interested in the game. Unlike the Dark Elves, their positionals mostly stuck to the basic skills such as block, pass and catch rather than the double edged sword that is Frenzy (especially on a Str 3 player). Initially, the unskilled elves were obviously easy targets and I knew that so I mostly played teams such as the Zons and Humans a fair bit. Later on I moved on to teams like Chaos and found that I could play pretty well with a couple of Blodging Sidestepping Blitzers and a Guard or two. Despite what all you veterans are saying, I believe that Pro-Elves could be a good choice for New Players IF they do not play developed bashy teams for the first few matches ESPECIALLY if the new player wants to explore the more fluid passing and running game. They can learn how to deal with them at a slightly later stage.
After about six games with my Elves in Academy (2 wins and 4 ties), I decided to dip my toes into Ranked. In a move that some would call silly, I started a team which I had no experience in - the Undead. Unlike most of the teams I had played with, the Undead had very limited movement and agility but high strength (from the mummies) and Regenerate. So in essence, I went from a quick running/passing game to a slower more bashy game - which for most new guys should be a struggle. But, I've found the Undead to be pretty good for introducing players to the more grinding aspect of BB and have outscored and outcasultied in both matches (against Elves and Ogres) I've played with them so far.
Just two cents from one of the 'newbs'  |
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TristanSommer
Joined: Jul 15, 2008
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Sep 10, 2008 - 11:30 |
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i think Orcs,Human and Necromantic are good for newbies.
I am a newbie and i can with Necros easy play |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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Sep 10, 2008 - 13:41 |
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Nice to hear that somebody else found pro elves to be a good newbie team. I think that because pro elves are so poor at higher TRs people forget that actually they're pretty neat for a new player. |
_________________
Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced." |
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nin
Joined: May 27, 2005
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Sep 10, 2008 - 14:17 |
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acording to the title, easiest to play:
Orcs, Dwarves, and Undead, at least those use to survive and let you play for the whole game (not so many clear pitches against). + They have straightforward ballhanding.
best to learn:
probably Humans
but I like elves also... they can teach you a lot about 1d rolls and playing safe
Lizzardmen to improve positioning |
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Reisender
Joined: Sep 29, 2007
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Sep 28, 2008 - 13:15 |
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daudy, regarding your dark elf starting problems:
dark elfs usually have some tough first games - and i wouldn t recommend them to a newbie. however, you even made it harder for yourself employing both a thrower and a witch elf at the beginning. the witch elf with frenzy, av 7 and without block is extremely unreliable at the beginning (and before first skill) and the dark elf thrower is 10k more expensive than a high elf thrower with same stats / skills. most people start darkies with blitzers, linos and rerolls only
user guide provides some good advice/ideas on that stuff
http://fumbbl.com/help:RaceStrategy |
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vanGorn
Joined: Feb 24, 2004
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Sep 28, 2008 - 13:36 |
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Well, since we learn the most from making mistakes, I would rather say, that those teams are best for newbies, where mistakes become evident clearly and aren't laminated by the teams benevolence.
As an old saying told: On the pursuit of victory, you should not skip to learn losing. |
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Gimme a pint of fungus beer!
Then we will climb the ladder.
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Vampy
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Sep 28, 2008 - 13:39 |
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| elf_gurl wrote: |
OK
Dark Elves (if you want Elves pick these because of AV8)
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No way. I can't agree there. Well for my luck anyway I find Darkies are a significant challenge to use. They are very expensive. Expensive players and rerolls and believe it or not, that ar8 isn't worth anything as it is like paper!
You get a couple of hits early on you are already facing a rebuild and its very disheartening to a new coach. I think these rank as one of the worst choices for a new coach.
Just my 2 cents on them. |
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nin
Joined: May 27, 2005
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Sep 28, 2008 - 14:09 |
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| Vampy wrote: | | elf_gurl wrote: |
OK
Dark Elves (if you want Elves pick these because of AV8)
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No way. I can't agree there. Well for my luck anyway I find Darkies are a significant challenge to use. They are very expensive. Expensive players and rerolls and believe it or not, that ar8 isn't worth anything as it is like paper!
You get a couple of hits early on you are already facing a rebuild and its very disheartening to a new coach. I think these rank as one of the worst choices for a new coach.
Just my 2 cents on them. |
The thing is that elves (or frail teams in general) are tough for new coaches, but someone may still want to try them. With that in mind, Dark Elves are arguably the best (least bad) choice because of av8 (and Witches with Dodge are a bit more durable than Lion Warriors).
For unexperienced coaches they are probably better than rats or any othre elves... but that doesn't mean they are easy to coach. |
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kwèk
Joined: Nov 13, 2005
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Sep 28, 2008 - 14:14 |
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Considering all the 21 races.
I still beleve that "orcs" is the way to go for a noob.
Orcs have everything you want to learn from, they have a tosser (not a good one, but still), they have ST 4, they got 4 good blitzers, and most importantly they have av 9.
If there is a turn over (saying an orc that throw a skull) the chances of him actually being pûnished by losing a player, are verry low.
I beleve all teams with av 7 are not good for noobs, because they will loose players. This will make them desperate, and they don't see there options annymore. Out of experience, I find that noobs have it really difficult when they are outnumbered. Sometimes they trow in the towl just because they lost a guy in the first turn.
I also dont beleve humans are good team to learn from, because they all have ag 3, and lots of positionals that are supposed to do everything. Most new players start passing long distances, and thinking catch on catchers will help them out by catching the ball. They will soon see that ag 3 can be an illusion, it looks easy to pass and catch, but in reality it isnt... they'll loose the joy of the game in there first matches without even trying the other races.
I also don't like the idea of dwarves for a starting set up. Altough dwarves are a powerhouse in the bloodbowl system, I cant use them. The reason why? Because I just dont know how to advance that much with that small amounth of movement.
Noobs won't get bad results, but they probably won't win. Either they suffer from the same problem as I do, or they won't keep a good defence up. |
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It is a bit embarrassing to have been concerned with the human problem all one's life and find at the end that one has no more to offer by way of advice than 'try to be a little kinder'.
~Aldous Huxley~ |
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vanGorn
Joined: Feb 24, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 28, 2008 - 14:39 |
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Agreed (partly). Orcs are quite perfect.
You can make mistakes and learn from them, without getting the team crippled, because of their strong armour and cheap linemen.
On the other hand, Humans are good, too. They are quite as unforgiving and have moderate armour and cheap linemen. |
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Gimme a pint of fungus beer!
Then we will climb the ladder.
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