PeteW
Joined: Aug 05, 2005
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 Posted:
Mar 16, 2017 - 11:52 |
 
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| Kalimar wrote: | | @PeteW: basically there is no petty cash any more as you access your treasury directly. You do get exta cash for being rhe underdog, but buying inducements does no longer affect your tv. That's the way I read it at least. This is balanced by expensive mistakes, which keeps your treasury low. |
Thanks Kalimar!
Not quite sure I follow though.
So at the start of the game both coaches have the option to spend their cash, without having to transfer?
The underdog gets bonus cash... but can they then spend their treasury on top?
What happens if one coach spends a million on inducements, and effectively buys a victory with no balance?
(At least in LRB4 there were handicaps which helped a bit, and were calculated after hiring of stars etc)
If I am right, then I follow you about expensive mistakes, but if they won;t be implemented for a while then tournaments will favour those with piles of cash! |
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"Jesus loves me this I know, 'cos my Bible tells me so." MrMojo - where did you go? |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Mar 16, 2017 - 12:02 |
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The new cash / potential addition of the redrafting system probably nixes piles of gold in most cases (edit: oh, yes, when implemented, of course!). The big effect will be agreeing a fair game only for your opponent to realise he's about to be stripped of gold by the post match system. Oh. May as well spend it all on free-TV inducements, then.
Cue salt. Or not playing teams with cash in the bank. |
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PeteW
Joined: Aug 05, 2005
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Mar 16, 2017 - 12:33 |
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Hmmm. Is this pre-match system going to be in place now? IF so, then there could be a lot of raw feelings in the upcoming UI (not that you will care, Goo!)
And I still want to know if you can add extra cash from your treasury to induced cash as the underdog... |
_________________
"Jesus loves me this I know, 'cos my Bible tells me so." MrMojo - where did you go? |
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joec911
Joined: Feb 06, 2015
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Mar 16, 2017 - 13:13 |
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Seems like you can add as much cash to either side of the equation, without limit. |
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Kalimar
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
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Mar 16, 2017 - 13:13 |
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@PeteW: think of it as both teams transferring their full treasury to petty cash. The underdog gets extra gold for the TV difference. Now both buy inducements, beginning witth the higher TV team. TV is not modified by the inducements bought, no extra cash for the underdog after the initial transfer. That clearer? And yes, this may result in teams with a high treasury having an extra advantage. But with Expensive Mistakes in place there won't be many high treasuries (beyond 100k) any more. |
Last edited by Kalimar on %b %16, %2017 - %13:%Mar; edited 1 time in total |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Mar 16, 2017 - 13:14 |
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I think I understand the new rule, but I'm losing your thread a little!
Essentially, it works as now, except there is no Petty Cash (so cash you spend on Inducments doesn't count toward TV). Yes - the underdog can spend cash if he wishes. But you probably won't be in that situation; the overdog is hugely favoured by the new system. In some cases (and not an insignificant number of them), instead of levelling the playing field a bit between teams featuring a TV gap, the new system actively encourages the already better team to spend money before it goes away and then be even more comfortable.
Of course, there may well be an odd period on FUMBBL between rulesets where it all gets funky.
(Ninja'd by Kalimar. Aimed at Pete.) |
Last edited by Purplegoo on %b %16, %2017 - %13:%Mar; edited 1 time in total |
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Kalimar
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
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Mar 16, 2017 - 13:15 |
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Yeah. Let the chaos gods rule supreme.  |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Mar 16, 2017 - 13:18 |
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I know you're kidding, but we have a mature game in Blood Bowl which has evolved to a lovely balance of lots of skill and a bit of luck; it's why the game is relentlessly popular. This inducement stuff (a bit) and the proposed card stuff (that everyone thankfully ignores - a lot) erodes that. Which is a shame.
Unless you mean the funky period not the rules, and if so, agreed. It'll be fun to watch the madness!  |
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Kalimar
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
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Mar 16, 2017 - 13:28 |
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I know and of course I'm kidding. There is good and bad in the new ruleset (love the new MVP rule for instance). But that's been the way for each and every update to the rules (Razor Sharp Claws, Piling On, IGMEOY gone, etc.). Christer's policy is clear. As close to the current ruleset as possible. And with the rate we get Erratas and FAQs the end of the rule updates hasn't been reached, I guess. |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Mar 16, 2017 - 13:36 |
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Oh, for sure, on all counts. I suspect we're far from the end of the new rules arriving (two new Goblin positionals have already been mooted, for instance. What form will Wizards take? etc.). Christer has also previously said he'd follow the NAF (although less often) on stuff like Khorne acceptance, and they've made some interesting, non rules adhering choices with BB2016. The splitting of the rulesets (Cyanide will do their own thing, every league makes their own choice, etc.) is a major bugbear of mine, but it is where we are.
That is, of course, what GW want / like. When I moaned at an 'insider' with a beer in my hand that I had two significant issues, he essentially replied that I had no need to worry because my league commissioner would fix it. Of course the cards are silly. They're for newbies, they're optional, you'll never see them in action in grown up BB. It's an alien concept to them that my league commissioner (Christer) is a stickler for following exactly what is printed on the page. With any luck, the bad bits will get fixed in later DZs or be impossible to code. |
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Mateuszzzzzz
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
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Mar 16, 2017 - 13:45 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | Courtesy of fidius for the summary:
Expensive Mistakes:
If Treasury is 100,000gp or greater you must roll for Expensive Mistakes. Roll d6, apply Modifier based on current Treasury, then check the Table. Round losses up to nearest 10,000gp.
Treasury Modifier
100-190 +2
200-290 +1
300-390 +0
400-490 -1
500+ -2
Mistakes Table
1- Lose all but 2d6 x 10k gp
2 Lose half of Treasury
3 Lose d3 x 10k gp
4 Lose d3 x 10k gp
5+ Nothing happens |
At which point does this roll happen? |
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PeteW
Joined: Aug 05, 2005
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Mar 16, 2017 - 15:30 |
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Gosh. And wow.
So, when is this implemented? From now?
I only ask as there are three khemri teams in my UI group with around 1 million of gold to be spent....
:O |
_________________
"Jesus loves me this I know, 'cos my Bible tells me so." MrMojo - where did you go? |
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Kondor
Joined: Apr 04, 2008
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Mar 16, 2017 - 15:39 |
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| Purplegoo wrote: | I know you're kidding, but we have a mature game in Blood Bowl which has evolved to a lovely balance of lots of skill and a bit of luck; it's why the game is relentlessly popular. This inducement stuff (a bit) and the proposed card stuff (that everyone thankfully ignores - a lot) erodes that. Which is a shame.
Unless you mean the funky period not the rules, and if so, agreed. It'll be fun to watch the madness! |
This is solved pretty simply. When the change is implemented also cut all current treasuries to a max of say 250k. It will only take a couple of games to reach the intent of the rules and balance everyone out. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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Mar 16, 2017 - 16:09 |
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As silly as the way they handle petty cash and inducements is, and it's how it's done in BB2 so I'm not just talking in theory, we have evidence to suggest that it's a bad implementation, the real issue with EM is in how it makes recovering players more difficult. Since it triggers at ANY TV level, and frankly just saving your 100-140k for your next reroll, or your next positional who costs 100k+ or to replace multiple injuries at once is gimped by this insanity.
Of course the understanding is that since they destroyed any semblance of balance in the inducement phase they needed to put some kind of cap on abusing it.
I would argue they have failed to do so anyway, but they did something which likely makes recovery worse, though I suppose there is no death spiral where you are losing money after a game, but your ability to do anything other than piecemeal replacement, while simultaneously having no cushion of your own in terms of petty cash is gone.
It's a bad rule poorly implemented in my opinion, but so be it, it will just become the new normal like every other rule change eventually became.
Oh, and yes, I'm aware of the seasons implementation as well, and while that curbs some of the replacement issue, it only does so at the point where your season ends. Again you have a system which feels appropriate for 'short' leagues, but simply ignores the reality of perpetual ladders. I can appreciate that Christer wants to keep FUMBBL as close to 'official rules' as possible, but at some point it has to be recognized that 'official rules', especially those that do not deal with in game mechanics, are not particularly appropriate for environments like R and B. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Mar 16, 2017 - 17:08 |
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| Kondor wrote: |
This is solved pretty simply. When the change is implemented also cut all current treasuries to a max of say 250k. It will only take a couple of games to reach the intent of the rules and balance everyone out. |
No need....once a team with 500K+ in treasury plays 1-5 games they will roll that 1-3 on the EM chart and lose their entire treasury. |
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